Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Thanks for attending everyone. I will read off the post from the forum for those that may not have read it ..."." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Characters who wish to attend are summoned to a dark room where they can't see who is there. Characters with infravision are provided with blind folds." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - A staff member will list out the agenda items that will be discussed during the meeting." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - The staff will work down through the agenda items offering their take on the items." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - All the characters are sitting and they stand and wait if they want to comment on something that has been said. An Admin will send them a tell when it is their turn to speak. When a character is finished speaking they sit down." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - An admin will periodically let the speaker know how many people are waiting to speak behind them to prompt them to take a seat if they have voiced their point to their satisfaction. Players are welcome to stand up again after they sit if they want to comment on the same topic again." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - No emoting during the meeting. No talking unless it is your turn to speak. If we follow the above guidelines the meeting should move along with little chaos." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I'll begin the meeting with reading of the work done this previous month for the game by the staff." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - A ring disappearing when you try to wear a ring on a finger that already has one, issue fixed." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Castout command works properly for clanleaders now." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - The character creation order problems have been resolved so you can now go back and fix things without re-doing the whole application." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Dead creatures who had items in their inventories were causing a crash sometimes after their corpses would become bugged, now fixed." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - The Comeliness stat is now figured in with the compare command so now all of our stats have representation in the game world no matter how small." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - The possibility to wield two weapons and then hold something as well was fixed." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Fixed palming so that it acknowledges the weight of the item being palmed." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - You now know what direction a door is opening and closing from." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - AFK indicator clears in the same way pmote does." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Variables for furcolor, malehair, femalehair, haircolor, eyecolor added to code to help with setting more mobs with variable descriptions." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Variable, rabbits, cats, dogs, horses, puppies, kittens, doormen, mercenaries, soldiers, temple guards, thugs added to the gameworld for people to purchase or be given access to. When 'purchased' these NPC's act as though you are there clan leader and will respond appropriately to orders." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - New crafts, butter, cheese, mercenary-making and bridle." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Numerous petitions, typos, emails responded to." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - So from the list you can see it has been a productive month." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Now for the first meeting topic ..." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Briefly discuss current email handling policy. Should it be first in, first out or should easier requests be handled first and harder, longer tasks handled when they can be? Would players prefer to get a stock email stating their request is on order and to check back weekly on it, etc?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - My thoughts are that if we do the easy stuff first more stuff gets done. Just my 2 pence." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I agree, I just wanted some player input on it." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - And whether they would like an email to notify them that their request is pending if we think its going to be a long one, or needs a specific imm's attention." Someone says, out of character, "I certainly like the email notification idea for when things will take a while. But what things are considered easy? Would someone with a sepcial request character be waiting long then someone already ingame with a simpler request that could wait?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I have definitely seen special characters take days, over a week to get approved. So yes." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - What things are considered easy is kind of our judgement call, we cant really give examples." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The email thing would be for requests that we expect will take us awhile to get to." Someone says, out of character, "In general I personaly would rather this that more largely effect a players ability to play their character be handled first weather easy or hard. But then things seem to be handled fairly quickly to me either way." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Something easy would be something like this big backpack is lighter than this small backpack, can it be adjusted? :)." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Any other player thoughts on this?" Someone says, out of character, "Dealing with emails is a pain in the butt anyway. If this new system helps you deal with emails. Great. But I hope no email "slips" between the cracks, that can form when this system is used." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Personally all staff emails I get are sorted into different folders. I don't delete those emails until another staff member replies all so I know the player got a response of some sort." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We are terribly human though. If you get no response after a week you should re-send and let us know its a resend so we start feeling guilty. ;)." Someone says, out of character, "I see it as being more important to deal with matters which are going to restrict RP if they are left alone before anything else. If someone has a special character request, that should be dealt with quickly, since until that is handled that player cannot play. If something is vital for a plot, then that should be dealt with quickly, regardless of the difficulty, to stop the plot from grinding to a halt. Finally, it's always nice to get a reply even just to say that something's being looked into, even if it can't be dealt with immediately." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - All good points, pretty much our thought as well. Anyone else?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Rambling on to the next topic." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Monthly or bi-monthly meetings? Alternating meeting times. One month 2pm CT and the next month 5pm CT?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I vote for bi-monthly because frankly, having a meeting for two topics where only four people show up is kind of a waste for staff and players, no offense to anyone." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - thats as far as my input on it goes." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We have Eight topics. I find that is digestable. Which is why I prefer monthly as opposed to bi-monthly." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I think we should vote on the 2 times we will have it." Someone says, out of character, "Bi-monthly. Who wants a monthly meeting, i cant picture much happening to need a meeting every single month." Someone says, out of character, "I'm sort of with Revus, with the exception of when there are enough topics to possibly merit monthly, however I feel staff player meetings can be a touch hard to follow as is and further adding to it with waiting until there are so many topics could make the meetings drag, I think a happy medium which depends on the number of topics to be discussed would be best." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Good point. We have already stated in the past if there are no topics to cover we will cancel the meeting and wait til next month. So if we get too few topics we can cancel as well. This way at least players know that near the end of the month it will happen if anyone is interested. Bi-monthly would mean players would be asking themselves is it this month .. next month .. etc?" Someone says, out of character, "Millie - We just hear a lot of second and third hand information of people not happy about this or that. We were hoping to make meeings so regular that these people would eventually feel better about speaking up. So it would be 'not a big deal' to gripe or suggest things to the staff, that sort of atmosphere." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So as a compromise how about we cancel if there are less than five topics posted within a reasonable time, not the last hour before the meeting." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - But it really had not happened anyway, those who are upset behind the scenes are either not actually existing or they prefer to not talk anyway." Someone says, out of character, "Because people have to take time to be here, and leaving topic posts to the last minute doesnt give anyone time to plan." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Sorry that was still me." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Compromise is good. I just want the players to know that we will be here if they some things to discuss. If nobody is interested, then its no big deal to cancel." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Ok, so we're clear then, Fred posts about the meeting earlier not waiting til a day before, heh. And we cancel unless there are decent number of significant topics..." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Is that alright with everyone?" Someone says, out of character, "This is only semi related topic but is it possible to request a private meeting like this with the staff? Those with complaints may feel more inclined to speak up in that sort of situation. And scheduling would be easier to set up as well." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Devon used to have a dungeon room set aside for private meetings, not sure where it is though, hehe." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I get requests for private sit down talks a lot. Really that is hard because things get misunderstood about perceived promises and such. Though, it can be done, just it does not end up being very productive in the end." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - You can definitely request and we will do our best to respond, but keep in mind that we have RL that distracts us as well so having a set time to meet like this is preferrable." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - No comments on the timings the meeting happens? Alternating 2 and 5 sound fine?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Next item ... Change to usury limits so that characters can get over the initial large coin costs of certain investments that they require to get something done?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - We've been mostly quiet as we've been getting nostalgic for the old days where the only player-staff interaction was Regi or Selwyn screaming at you in the interrogation chamber,." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Or the "good ol' days" as some refer to them as. Heh." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I was thinking about this. I think the base we have should mean without collatoral. So if you say buy a suit of armor for the mercenary you are hiring with the coin, the armor could be collatoral, or whartever you want." Someone says, out of character, "Most who need many mercs have collatoral to put up anyway and you can get most of your coin back for mercs specifically." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Most who need many mercs have collatoral to put up anyway and you can get most of your coin back for mercs specifically." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Too bad we can't bill them and jail them if left unpaid, but I don't think that would work or go over too well currently." Someone says, out of character, "Heh, I loved Regi. I'm not sure I fully grasped the topic but, Anyway, I'm a little concerned about what I feel is a somewhat growing rift between upper class rich and lower class. It seems to me we have a lot of high end and poor end goods in game without a whole lot of middle end, just a player view on the matter and the same seems to go for positions. I think there should be only marginal help in higher end investments and more middle class type stuff.. If that makes any sense, keep the big achievements big." Someone says, out of character, "I guess I should think of an meeting worthy way to say that." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Really, hiring mercs isn't something that joe the miller would be able to do anyhow, its something for well off folks mostly." Someone says, out of character, "Could the merc thing be explained, what exactly can be counted as collateral?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Do we even have rich PC's?" Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I like the rift, but more middle class would be cool too. But the rift is very Harn and HL and is basically gone, most people can have coin if they choose to, with one profesison or another." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Its funny, this is sort of off-topic, but most of the PCs that players think are wealthy are not very wealthy at all." Someone says, out of character, "I dont know about everyone else, but I would prefer Usury be left to PCs. No idea how it is now, but I prefer the idea of having some ratbag pc usury chase you for money, then the code, just make it easier." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - PC's do not have the coin for usury basically, it is just not a very viable pc profession, though, it is an avenue to take. Illegal non-mercantyler loans could surely be done though, but those would be illegal and would easily be some 'ratbag' chasing you down. heh." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Me too, alas it means giving tons of coin to some ratbag PC ;-) And theres no telling what they'd do with it, I don't sound too trusting do I. Anyhow, too bad we don't have a way for them to give out notes that have value to the borrower but not the PC lender." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Because really, you don't want your PC neighbor with 20,000d to get mad at you, it could go poorly for you. :-)." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Well currently there is a way to get NPC mercs though there is a 2000d deposit in them. Some suggested upping the amount userers would loan to cover such things. This amount can be upped by having collatoral, the same as in real life collatoral. Like, you do not pay, they take your stuff whether it is a house or a suit of armor or whatever." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Heck I'd kill that low-down INSERTNAMEHERE for a farthing." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Same goes for NPCs too I suppose, but since we run them generally they are less subject to ego running away with them. Unfortunately its very easy to rub a fellow player the wrong way in a MUD." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Nothing we can do about that one though, thats up to folks to play nice with each other." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Well, not nice necessarily, but fair." Someone says, out of character, "I donno, I just feel like some of the PC element is going in this NPC hireling code..I love it, i really do. But not giving PCs control over XX thing because they might do somthing?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - IF they work up to that, very kewl. We just aren't going to dump money on them for a starter. Any mercantyler can work to be a usurer." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - When it comes to vast sums of money, yeah. As wrong use of money can make a mockery out of the style and environment of the game. It needs to be someone we know would be responsible." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - PC merc orgs control what PC's can hire mercs." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - As for not giving PCs control, alot of what has been added lately has been stuff to do exactly that, the NPC hireling thing included." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - So if they save up 20,000 silver and want to start lending it, that is more than fine for them." Someone says, out of character, "And thats possible without breaching mangi rules Blackhorde?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Right. You need to go through PC mercenaries to get NPC mercenaries." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - As long as you are a mercantyler." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - As long as you are a mercantyler. Mercantylers can do usury." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I think his comment presumed that during your savings you would've joined the guild, yup." Someone says, out of character, "So, your not going to cut PC usuers out, people just need to work up to that point?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We had a PC usurer, they quit ... but we continue to support guilded sorts, yes." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - We had a couple before, but honestly, there was little player support. I don't mean to sound like I'm throwing that back in people's faces, that its the players fault. But really, there were several loans taken out during times when it coulda been done thru a PC, and wasn't." Someone says, out of character, "Rhamses, Nyxelle being two example." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Basically we have to let PC's be able to borrow coin even when there are no pc usuers just like we have to let people buy food when there are no pc cooks." Someone says, out of character, "I think there was someone else too, can't remember who though." Someone says, out of character, "I actually thought this was more or less the way things worked already, having experienced, used and played with one of the pcs before." Someone says, out of character, "Furthermore I think allowing this sort of thing through trusted pcs gives other guilds more to do, litigants being one example." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Yes, ultimately we prefer things in players hands, especially if they are dependable." Someone says, out of character, "I see where the staff comes from with trust, but I think that could be dealt with if maybe there were matters of journeymen under masters where the master would technically have control over the silver and thus giving the staff a chance to rein in anyone going wild." Someone says, out of character, "So far as Revus comments about players not making use of it, it was new, probably not terribly exciting and I think given time that sort of thing would see way more use and possibly create a great deal more rp." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - When we say trust we are referring to a number of things, "Will this person be around." "Can they handle this specific role". But you get the point." Someone says, out of character, "Anyway, I as a plyer thought this was already the way it was done in this game." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Because it didn't work out before doesn't mean it won't be tried again, if we gave up that easy there certainly wouldnt be any PC nobles, heh." Someone says, out of character, "I just wanted to point something out, because honestly a great del of new players only speculate as to how most people acquire they . . . the roles they start with." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - In fact if we gave up on different special roles you'd all have to start out as rope-belted nobodies and work your way up to anything you wanted to do." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Course sometimes it works out better that way." Someone says, out of character, "While unofficial, you could say there is a point system here similar to SoI's. . . except ordinarily you have the opinion of one or two admins which will ordinarily watch you more often then the others." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Generally it is luck. The player just happens to ask for a role when we feel its needed." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We do not use SOI's roleplay point system. We do not have plans for it really." Someone says in Harnic, in a soothing and eloquent tone, "But it's not nilly-willy out of the blue, for a Usury role, you'd need someone experienced with all aspects of the mud." Someone says in Harnic, in a soothing and eloquent tone, "Both geographical and mechanical." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - A more formalized point system is something we should maybe think about, but honestly its the kind of thing that is very forgettable.. You're busy, you're seeing RP and seeing what people do but forget to point them and so it just ends up being unusable." Someone says, out of character, "I've got no problem with the current system. . . as Blackhorde pointed out, alot falls on luck regardless." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - An usurer really is not an unattainable goal. You just need to be in the guild and have the money to lend. *shrugs*." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - And in the end, the only ones with points would be the ones you've taken an interest in, or the ones your own PC interacts with, and thats unfair." Someone says, out of character, "A PC picking out a role when it is available, and honestly, I don't think that as too much of a bad thing." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I cannot really see any point system being fair. Luck of the draw is better in a way, want to play something when we have a need coupled with you needing a character and a good ap for it. That seems better than happening to play with the completely US admins can watch you play and give you points." Someone says, out of character, "I have one last question. . . i've not played for the last few months, but I recall about a year prior to that, for that entire year, a great deal of immortal interaction lacking in the sense of imm-ran quests." Someone asks in Harnic, in a soothing and eloquent tone, "Is this something you've tried to work down. . . or is it simply people being busy?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Theres alot of attainable goals, they just take time and putting up alot of crap." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - But even if say you are turned down for a noble or master so and so it is usually an attainable goal ic anyway." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We usually prefer players to drive the RP in the world. This game does not have a big history of RP times driven by admins. We would rather put the power in a players hands to drive an event with our backing." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yeah us saying we won't start you there shouldnt be taken as us saying its an impossible feat, or that we think you're too much of a loser to play the role." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We are sorta getting way off topic though. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Worded a little blunt maybe, but honest." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Blackhorde panicks when Revus starts being honest :-)." Someone says, out of character, "Thats why Revus is the Man :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The free world panics when Revus starts to be honest. :)." Someone says, out of character, "I think it might be best to code somesort of of a program where you can see and change what a player can do, like hire mercs, loan money etc etc. Also perhaps an automated system so one can rent rooms automatically, hire mercs etc, I do not know if its hard to code or if its allready on the list." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - The free world panics when Revus starts to be honest. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Sorry that was me before duh. hehe." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - For anyone who has looked at our code lists and bug lists I think coding is the last thing we need. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Yes, but its quite hard to get a room etc." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I like to make things realistic. Currently, you can hire NPC mercs with enough coin which is how I think it should be." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - That would be a nice system, but I doubt it would ever get finished. Theres crash bugs to handle currently, and a heap of stuff on the coding list that I think we've chased off coder support to an extent." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I like to not rely on trust so much as realism in the game. Trust is too subjective." Someone says, out of character, "Ok the merc thing might be ok, but rooms, you need to be online at the right time etc. Perhaps if the admins do start to code this system I might have a few suggestions." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So we have to kind of run interference for coders and shut down certain player requests for different types of code support, where we think it'll be too much of a distraction or what not." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - NPC Mercs can be available to allow you to hire other NPC mercs." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - There is still one who might help ... one who could bring hope back to the Republic .. *shakes head* Silly Star Wars. Heh." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - And that arrangement could be handled in email." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We have one more person in the queue to speak, hopefully on the topic of usury. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yeah someone just thought they don't remember what the topic was and I'm there too, what were we talking about?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Change to usury limits so that characters can get over the initial large coin costs of certain investments that they require to get something done?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We can talk about other topics after we get through the agenda items. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Also big Player made plots or rp events, never started one myself but if I would, do the admins help allot or are you mostly on your own?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We help, but again this is not the time for that question. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - To restate I think the 'limits' are soft limits depending on standing in the community and collatoral and the current limits we quote I think are usually without collatoral. So, if someone needs more, and has stuff, they can usually get more coin loan wise. It is just not our initial quote to them about how much they can get." Someone says, out of character, "Ok sorry, was because I saw something about rp and stuff :) (: thought it was the right time." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Yes, Revus has let the topic stray. I blame him. LOL." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The current limits are based on reputation and status." Someone says, out of character, "Revus is allways ruining it, bah." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - It actually says that somewhere, though maybe not in a player accessible location, I think its in the admin forum standards or something." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Next topic. We will open the floor at the end so don't panic. :) Glasses.. Harn technology?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I say yes." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I think like I said on the forum, yes, due to Sindarin glassworking influences, but not due to technological advancement." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - haha, Coranus isn't here to defend Harn's backwardness, I say we vote in glasses!" Someone says, out of character, "I'm in favor of glasses, - millie already nailed my why." Someone says, out of character, "I say yes/no ^^ glasses should be seen very little, not that half the playerbase walks around with glasses." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Yup, they are pricey and its not like we will be building shades." Someone says, out of character, "And they should be very expensive, like when they had them in RL old ages." Someone says, out of character, "Where is the roof however? When do things stop becoming harnworthy? What is the tech level of Harn?" Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Agreed and possibly made only by a master who has had exposure to Sindarin glassworking." Someone says, out of character, "I say yes. A cruder form of a lense isnt something I see as too far fetched." Someone says, out of character, "Think old style specticals." Someone says, out of character, "Ballpark, given the current IC time I'd say is around 1200AD, but as has been pointed out, its not precise because Harn canon isn't precise either. There are things they have that are beyond the "based upon" year, and things they don't have that already existed, so.." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Off topic is but I say tech level about 1100-1200, without actual exception. Seeming exception may be due to Elder race or god influences but this could be magic in nature not technological. No gunpowder, bad bad." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - That was me, if it wasnt obvious." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Ultimately the staff decides based on what we can find in Canon and like time periods." Someone says, out of character, "I just wanted to trek back to the floor on the subject of glasses." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Shoot." Someone says, out of character, "I don't see them fitting in so well with the customs in a kingdom like Kaldor so much. . . a Kaldoran would not be openly accustomed, maybe even more so as a noble then even a commoner, to use something to point out an obvious hinderence." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Yeah, it might look very very odd." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I agree that the nobility would likely have someone read for them." Someone says, out of character, "I really don't see a Laranian society as one to just openly draw that out. . . since, there is a great deal of behind-the-scenes stuff going on in every Kingdom, where any weakness is just that." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Perhaps a scribe .. who wears glasses. :)." Someone's something begins to burn low. Someone says, out of character, "Right. . . also, I find it hard to see someone with those skills in Kaldor, or any kingdom in my opinion aside from Melderyn." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Ultimately the question was should this technology exist at all, not whether it would be used by certain people. Which is really a whole deeper question." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Those are IC issues depending on the likelihood of each person, not really a major OOC matter." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We made a decision to make glasses 'available'. We just need to know if there a compelling reason for them not to exist at all." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - In short, crude glasses can be produced by rare enlightened masters. Don't worry, we're not going to start putting variable color glasses in every shop." Someone says, out of character, "I just don't see folks wearing glasses at all in the timeframe of 1200 ad." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - hehe variable colors..." Someone says, out of character, "But that might just be me." Someone says, out of character, "Probally one of those one glassy things, finding a good description on the internet would be quite easy, and glasses even excited in like 500 B.C. only I wouldn't call them glasses, more like a magnifying stone thing. I say Glasses yes, but only very rare... needed to be approved by admins." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - If you can't see it, might I suggest a pair of glasses..." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Currently our take is making them by petition only and not always available." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - sorry, couldnt resist." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - And only available at 2 masters in Harn, 1 of which no human will ever see." Someone says, out of character, "That was awesome :-P." Someone says, out of character, "The only people I see with glasses in Harn are honestly someone like a Shek-P'var, with access to technology surpassing realism." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So then.... moving on..." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - On to the next topic." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Diseases and illnesses added to the game? Coding again .. needs a coder interested in the project." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Bummer, but it was a nice idea." Someone says, out of character, "Yes, but first only if the player agrees." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Primarily the idea of *water* not being clean and making you temporarily sick was my main interest in it." Someone says, out of character, "Not like an admin says: hmmm who's going to get sick this day... maybe later when its thought out better." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Agreed, diseases would be cool. And maybe not only by agreement, like dugging for roots and food around corpses or drinking from maggoty water, coudl be fun." Someone says, out of character, "This also would make a physichian more usefull." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Only animals and the poorest of peasant scum should really drink water, ideally. This thing with clergy and nobles and stuff going to the fountain instead of buying a goblet of something is just absurd." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We do not require player approval to afflict a character, so no players would not have to agree." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Or maybe entering combat with a disesased player giving a chance to catch it. That too could be fun." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Even normal Joe Commoner would drink something brewed." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yes what Revus said. If we ever get disesases in, city wells outside of temple holy fountains may have a chance to make you sick." Someone says, out of character, "Well just think it out very well, players would die from it, and we don't want that, well I don't :P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Its academic anyhow because it requires code support. And no, it would be temporary illness." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Killing characters is not a goal of the staff, no." Someone says, out of character, "I say for realism player doesnt need to agree but only by direct admin application. Maybe set up a monitor for things like creature attacks that may transmit it. Coded application is just scary." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Coded diseases do not need to mean death. It can mean not able to move very much or lowered skills or attributes or a number of things." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Death is the end. We like to be more inventive than that." Someone says, out of character, "Minor coded diseases as Millie stated sounds really cool and I'm in full support of it, poor health due to not eating/drinking/fighitng to too low of hp." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Though actually even some of the existing code affects last longer than desirable, I've seen PCs die and have to be rezzed because some poison didn't go away after a cure object was used." Someone says, out of character, "These things should have repercussions, maybe not big ones, but little ones." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Ultimately it is a moot point. It requires code that we do not have." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Yes, vomiting, diarhea, etc, etc." Someone says, out of character, "On the note of what Revus said though about brewed stuff I'd like to mention that if coded disease were implemented so thought I think might be put onto cost of eating and drinking and the availability of 'brewed' drinks. Tea being often less common then say ale, which not everyone might drink." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Well, to be more accurate, its something to deal with farther along, and there are already outstanding code stuff to be considered so.." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Not moot so much as not anytime soon." Someone says, out of character, "Would atributes be perminently decreased and how long would it take etc etc... I would like to see this, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with it... getting sick ok but ruining a pc's way to play isn't :) , hope you get my point." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We do not permanently affect anything lightly so the chance of that being coded are unlikely." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The actual mechanics of the affect could be discussed by staff and coder if its eventually gotten around to." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - No point hashing it all out now, really." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Next agenda item. The addition of self-inflicting wounds?" Someone says, out of character, "Yes I'd like to see it, my char has seen battle so now and then, but sometimes wounds disappear to quickly." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I think it would be another excellent atmosphere addition. Wounds you sometimes want to last longer, or want to actually simulate an accidental wound." Someone says, out of character, "I say yes but again only with admin approval. I could see a possibility for someone just being silly with it." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - If it was a PC command it would also make it easier for imms to inflict wounds on PCs and stuff wituout actually having to hit them or use the crash-frequent mset functionality." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Some of you don't know what I was talking about there, sorry." Someone says, out of character, "Go for it, only thing you need to use caution around is PCs wounding themselves, then healing themselves. I would also like to see a code to inflict wounds on 'captured' PC for those with the morals of a thug." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Related to this is an item that never got put on the Code Projects list. A flag a character can set on themselves so they don't heal. That would address this. I will add that to the code list." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Suffice to say there are times where it is IC for someone to be wounded without actual combat." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - And actually, committing suicide with it wouldnt be a significant issue cuz you'd pass out before getting there anyhow." Someone says, out of character, "And there might be suicidal characters around... admin approval would take to long, they're not allways online. this also should include bleeding effects, but dying from self inflicted wounds? possible or not?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I am not very keen about coding suicide to be honest." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The only way you could really die from it is if we allowed unlimited wound size to be inflicted." Someone says, out of character, "What about fainting? like from wounds or from seeing a mouse." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Cuz generally you pass out well before death occurs, and start to heal slowly." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Fainting can be RPed." Someone says, out of character, "I'm kind of against these ideas." Someone says, out of character, "I'll go down the list, self inflicting wounds, as far as you rp falling and hurting yourself, I feel the wound might be better off rp'd as well." Someone says, out of character, "If someone is so inclined to rp to self wound they'll probably be just as inclined to go see the physician, if not, well I just don't see this being used." Someone says, out of character, "Furthermore I see a strong possibility for abuse." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Personally I don't see the squeemishness around suicide, all deaths are logged on a vboard, we'll know who died by their own hand. If there was no reason, it'll be obvious and since characters are all under one account theres no hiding your past actions." Someone says, out of character, "I can see players trying to use it in a very unrealistic way to get attention, wounding themselves in situations where ti doesn't make sense - same for the self no-heal flag." Someone says, out of character, "And this brings me to the event of suicide, the instance of char suicide is way higher in rpi muds then it would realistically be." Someone says, out of character, "This is due to people who get bored of roles or sick or roles or just pissed off." Someone says, out of character, "I don't want to make that sort of thing even easier than it already is." Someone says, out of character, "If you want to retire my experience is hl staff respond to emails very reasonably." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Anyone can retire a character at the login screen." Someone says, out of character, "And actually I havn't looked at the menu recently to see if it is autodo able now or not. Anyway, my two cents." Someone says, out of character, "Heh yeah I thought you'd say that." Someone says, out of character, "I also feel the same way as the last speaker - I think anything in relation to self-inflicting wounds falls under the same obligations as asking for permission in regards to other 'sensitive issues' that players need permission for." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I believe we currently allow for the rp of self inflicted wounds." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - There simply is not currently code support for it." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Right. Injuring yourself is not a sensitive issue." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Its a roleplaying game, dramatics are allowed." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Whether its worth coding, thats another issue." Someone says, out of character, "Then I do not think that it is worth coding in my opionion." Someone says, out of character, "About the fainting part, yes you can rp fainting by sleep, but I'd like to see Bob lays on the floor unconsious, instead of bob's sleeping :) - have a self inflicting wound recording thing, so you can see people who are using it to much? perhaps a descreasing comeliness punishment if you use it to much ^^." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Alright .. on to the next topic." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - I tend to agree, if it is something that if needed as an actual injury, those situations should be rare enough to get admin intervention for." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Items morphing from wear-and-tear?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yeah we'll revisit it along with the other code thing we covered above if/when theres time." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - We're nowhere with that, next..." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Pretty much. Talking about code at these meetings is not really a good use of time. None of us are coders." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Last topic, a good one. What can we could do to keep our players and most important, our new admins happy?" Someone says, out of character, "Revus - It'd be a nice feature, but given the size of that system and the time investment necessary.. I mean its almost more desireable to do some of these smaller things first." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I have no idea about the new imms thing, the ones involved aren't here to say why the left.. Or, well, one of them isn't, we know why the other one mentioned isnt here." Someone says, out of character, "I would like to see the playerbase closer together. Im alone most of my online time (im ok with that) But i feel until our player base expands, is 3-4 playing areas needed?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Play in Tashal. Problem solved. :)." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - LOL." Someone says, out of character, "Revus- Yeah." Someone says, out of character, "I'll be going there when I can." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Pesky players, wanting choice.. Is this really an issue that staff can even address, as long as there is opportunity to be different or play somewhere less common some will want to." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - We make it no secret that Tashal is the main supported area, Trobridge secondary. Other places are not supported. Players are welcome to live anywhere but we do not support them." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - The only way around that is to destroy those other places. Not sure we want to go there." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - See, Fred just cost us another player! *grin*." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - In seriousness though, its obvious the playerbase is torn on that issue." Someone says, out of character, "I'd like to see the player base closer together too, Tashal and Trobridge are the two most perfect places to play in if you ask me. Try to have people come to those to more easily, perhaps a new village or travelers stop between them? slowly building it up or something, just saying something (probally silly :P )." Someone says, out of character, "Crap pushed enter sorry ^^." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So we can't deal with it in a meaingful way currently, its painfully obvious that numerous players here want these other options." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - The option is there for everyone to play closer to the 'hub' that is Tashal. I see no reason to take that option away." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Meaning, basically, choose Tashal or choose to play with less people. I think the choice should remain." Someone says, out of character, "I'd like to say that I think absolutely nothing needs to be changed with one's option to live where they want. . . there are already enough area's closed off to players simply because we have enough to intersperse ourshelves into." Someone says, out of character, "Also. . . there is a temple on the way to and from Trobridge and Tashal. . . and certainly, there'd be no stopping a PC from opening an establishment there more then likely." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yup." Someone says, out of character, "Even people like the Kath have been able to interweave themshelves into the rest of the Kingdoms plots as Pcs." Someone says, out of character, "Infact, they were a major factor. . . this was years ago, but if the PCs will it, there are easy ways to connect everyone together." Someone says, out of character, "Heck. . .the freedom of being able to literally live in the wilderness of Harn, away from everyone, is what enables many a character to live as long as they do :-P It's a beautiful system." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yeah even to try and get rid of the kath, a group with no players really, encounters resistance so you can see what removing a more major place like Geldeheim or Heras or Trobridge would result in." Someone says, out of character, "To compare it to SoI would be laughable. . . if someone wants to lose themshelves in Harn, it's very easy to do so." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Ok, that covers the playerbase consolidation sub-topic of making people "happy", was there another sub-topic to this." Someone says, out of character, "We tried consolidation here once and I don't think it helped back then. However as a player it seems to me hl has been seeing a steady if not modest growth. Maybe I'm wrong, but it FEELS that way. I think the answer is player freedom." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - There has been steady but modest growth." Someone says, out of character, "Which we currently seem to have a great deal of, I'm actually all and all pretty impressed with the way the players and staff have done things lately and as a once outspoken opponent of the way this game was being run, I think the next step would be more pc leaders in leader roles they actually want." Someone says, out of character, "I think at this point it is more on the shoulders of the players than anyone to help this game grow and players and staff to want to stay." Someone says, out of character, "I myself intend to get a little more involved as I've been trying to sort of ease back into things more." Someone says, out of character, "Milile - I do like to open up the possiblity of PC leaders working up to being leaders in game. There is a good bit more of that than there was at one time I think. At one time I think most leaders were made as leaders from the start, now many started off as 'nothing' to grow to lead." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Leadership is a crap shoot, theres no telling who will be good from the start and who will work into it. Thats been my finding anyhow." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Plus I think leaders 'grown' in game get more respect from other players than some leader plopped into command." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - No matter how good their character was in the past. heh." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Not wanting to name names but we've seen some just pop into leader roles and do fine, like Avangelus, his play was a decent officer role from day one." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Terentia also did well though she did have to ascend through the ranks a little." Someone says, out of character, "Blachorde - The floor is now open. Just speak as you like." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Also people often think insta-leaders are admins or get accused of being a favorite of the staff." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Shada for example was a bit of twit when his PC started but turned out great. who knows, its total crapshoot, and alot depends on how interested the PC leader is in their clan." Someone says, out of character, "I think player preference is no small part, all of my successful chars here came from rope belts, my unsuccessful one was made a leader." Someone says, out of character, "I think that people you've assigned leadership roles to from the start have excelled in there careers at one point in time over ninety percent of it." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Well insta-leaders have about the same track rate as other characters really." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Meaning most eventually get bored or die." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - But yes very few actual 'why the heck did we make this person a leader' disappointments." Someone says, out of character, "Unfortunately the players who come to meetings probably arn't the sort to need to be convinced to stay .. or have any complaints.." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Strictly speaking leadership maybe, hasn't been bad. But the track record is less good for nobles and general other start out high types." Someone says, out of character, "Most insta-leaders who i've found that die, do so doing something exciting, involving a majority of the pbase a . . . or a good chunk of it." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Alot of those fail." Someone says, out of character, "My most successful chars though were ones where I made roles in conjunction with other chars." Someone says, out of character, "Maybe a system allowing players to connect more prior to making could help, I know it risks meta gaming, maybe something enabling the imms to keep an ear in." Someone says, out of character, "In some sort of RPT, often time delving out deep, or fighting in Wars, or trying to take over villages :-P But those are all extremely exciting and I believe neded aspects of the mud." Someone says, out of character, "Not regularly." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - If you're not alone it helps, awhile ago we, or at least I, resigned to stop trying to force players who usually play together to play apart." Someone says, out of character, "It's a double edged sword, I've been annoyed and applauded that in the past myself." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Sometimes someone will die, and their OOC friends will find a way to die or retire to go make a role with their friend." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Thats messy, but forcing them to not do that causes more harm than good, easier to let people play with whom they want to." Someone says, out of character, "Personally I think - this might not be a heavily favored view - that some degree of this needs to be overlooked if it is at least not done too blatantly." Someone says, out of character, "Basically I'm saying I agree with Revus." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Right, IC it makes no sense, but OOC its a game and the point is entertainment." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So you gotta give." Someone says, out of character, "Honestly, a pair of knowledged characters jsut re-entering the game, even if paired from the start under those circumstances add a great deal to the mud, or the ability to." Someone says, out of character, "They normally give much more then they take in my opinion." Someone says, out of character, "Bar fights! perhaps assaulting someone with fists should not be punished badly. people get drunk, fight sit out getting sober in jail and continue there life." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Hmm, was there anyone else waiting to comment Fred?" Someone says, out of character, "Yeah, that would be fun." Someone says, out of character, "In Golotha :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Its nothing to remove the lawful flag from all the taverns." Someone says, out of character, "It can be rp'ed but I've never seen one yet." Someone says, out of character, "Millie - Open forum now anyone can talk." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I could do that in ten minutes.." Someone says, out of character, "Ugh, don't do that." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Some might die though, heh." Someone says, out of character, "It would be so abused. Let it be rped." Someone says, out of character, "But as soon as someone grabs a weapon or is severe the guards intervene?" Someone says, out of character, "I agree. . . if they want to have no law flags in taverns, they should head to Geldeheim." Someone says, out of character, "Some taverns should have no law flags, some should." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Adding the what ifs (like weapon or health status) becomes a code thing unfortunately." Someone says, out of character, "Aww to bad." Someone says, out of character, "Well making some flags support not crim flagging would be easy." Someone says, out of character, "Perhaps admins should push people to bar fights :P." Someone says, out of character, "I'm sorry if this is common knowledge, but is hl lacking in code support presently? Or is the list just that big?" Someone says, out of character, "Both I think :)." Someone says, out of character, "Realisticially, even with the code installed to taverns, if someone wants another person dead, they can do it there on the spot effectively enough, often enough." Someone says, out of character, "We have one overworked coder currently." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Reb who was helping code, stepped down. So we lost a coder." Someone says, out of character, "Getting out becomes another issue, but the act of murder or assault is easy enough." Someone says, out of character, "And one recent retiree who may or may not be back." Someone says, out of character, "And the list is that big." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - I cannot 'code' per se. I can just manipulate what already exists to get something tweaked." Someone says, out of character, "Bar fights would be well rped when you're able to self inflict wounds." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - In fact, can they even see the whole list Fred? Or is one of those an imm only forum?" Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Since some of it is sensitive before hand they only see the Player bug reports and the completed code and completed bugs list." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - right, ok, yeah.." Someone says, out of character, "Absolutely everything should be rped in hl in reality. . . . and it's been known that a realistic emote can interject even seemingly forced combat." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - You don't want to know is the short answer." Someone says, out of character, "Rp is crucial, an emote is an action in hl." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - But for players who are curious we have a Code Projects and Code Bugs forum in addition to what you can see." Someone says, out of character, "Regardless of if code sayus it is or isnt in use of a realistic situation." Someone says, out of character, "Like: bob tries to punch beb on the face - Beb is hit on the face hard - Beb types: self-inflict nose bruise bleed - diag beb and you see the wound ... This would be great, my 2 cents :P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I'd reckon each has something like 1-2 dozen issues outstanding on it, and some of them require coding of major systems in themselves. Its enough to break a coder's will, in fact thats basically what we do here, we run a RPG and coder breaking mill." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Such a system is too MUSH-like. HL's has a coded combat system for a reason." Someone says, out of character, "Yes but if you type hit bob now you'll get the guards on your neck and flagged as a criminal." Someone says, out of character, "Millie _ right I see no reason bar brawls cannot be rped at this time." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Code Bug forum has 46 topics, Code Projects forum has 58 topics." Someone says, out of character, "It really depends on where you are to have open bar fights." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - We find a coder, flood them with requests some of which seemingly impossible to implement, leave them laid bare before the requests of players, give little appreciation, and few to no special privileges for the PCs they play." Someone says, out of character, "Theres kingdoms its accepted in, and kingdoms its not, there is the School of Arms in Tashal." Someone says, out of character, "And the yard in the Freetown." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - So thats why we don't have them breaking down our door *grin*." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Ultimately if you want to fight, challenge the person and go to a fighting ring. Like the School of Arms." Someone says, out of character, "I was going to say Revus.." Someone says, out of character, "In Geldeheim or ORbaal, you can fight in the taverns." Someone says, out of character, "The less a coder is involved in actual administration the better it seems to me anyway." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Keeping coding separate from adminning and playing is a good thing, yes." Someone says, out of character, "Even a coder who more or less only does what they feel like code wise, receives no real perks, but doesn't burn out, seems better than not such a coder." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - One would think. Though sometimes their input is required because we don't know how to implement alot of the ideas we (or you guys) come up with." Someone says, out of character, "I think if two players should really want to engage in a bar fight. . . that it might be able to be done with a toggle." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Ultimately we accept what help coders offer and try to ensure they know how thankful we are without favoring them in game, which is not fair to the playerbase." Someone says, out of character, "Both characters agreeing, so that them and only them are able to strike one another without having code-direct conseqnces." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - More code, they can just go elsewhere. Much easier." Someone says, out of character, "It makes sense to me, but how does HL actually go about attempting to acquire coders?" Someone says, out of character, "Obviously, fighting in the Lion Rampant, regardless of code, will have consequences after the fight, but that would be I believe a safe and viable option for it." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Players come forward and say, "Hey, I can code." and we interview them." Someone says, out of character, "HL code is a thing of wonder :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - There could probably be a flag added that would be settable by the player, that would make them a pariah, someone against whom the law code isn't tripped if attacked, and if both set that flag, via the set command or whatever, it would be fine, but again thats a code thing." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - If wonder is madness, then yes." Someone says, out of character, "From what i've heard one of the most complex codes to manipulate." Someone says, out of character, "Hey I can co- er.. I think I'm going to shove my foot in my mouth before I say anything rash." Someone says, out of character, "A flag like that, Revus would be great." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - Every time we get a new coder they say, "Where is the commenting ...?" and we just smile." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - I've heard its convoluted and poorly documented/commented." Someone says, out of character, ". . ." Someone says, out of character, "That'd be a heck of a project, commenting uncommented code worked on by several hands heh." Someone says, out of character, "If we had a billionaire devote a million or so to traithe, our problems would be solved :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Probably a result of having a half dozen or more people hacking the hell out of it for years.. Also we why have so many bugs." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Yes, but he'd put a bunch of crap in there that we didn't ask for. Ahem, ha." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - TFBC has tutored me just enough to make me dangerous on a good day. :)." Someone says, out of character, "TFBC - I'll take a million." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Fred and Millie are the ones with money.. don't look at me." Someone says, out of character, "If I had a billion, i'd give you a mil :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Fred, embezzel something from M%s (%s)would ya?" Someone says, out of character, "Though as of now the only way im accessing the internet is running the comp with safe net. . . safe mode with networking :-P." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - No thanks, I like my job. :)." Someone says, out of character, "I think that says enough about my financial situation." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Oooh, maybe you can convince some programmer that HL is a top secret M%s (%s)project that could use their help? Course that our C isn't "visual" would probably kill them." Someone says, out of character, "LOL." Someone says, out of character, "Revus - Ok, think I'm going to go get dinner, we seem to have exhausted most of the relevant discussion." Someone says, out of character, "Blackhorde - If there is nothing more we can call the meeting adjourned."