Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Okay, we would like to start this meeting by thanking you 
    for attending. We want to list some of the recent accomplishments in the 
    game that we are proud of, then we will list the Agenda items and get 
    the meeting started. After we list the Agenda items we will start at the 
    top and work down asking for input from anyone who has any. Just stand 
    up if you want to speak on an item and you will be given your turn. When 
    you are done speaking take your seat again. The staff will send TELL's 
    to let those know of who's turn it is."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Putting Harnworld in the PC's hands, this has been our 
    focus for many months and we have achieved the following."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - PC treasuries for PC funded paydays set on other characters."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This will ensure a better economy as coins are used that 
    are in circulation."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - OOC market area for crafters to access all items available 
    in the game."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This allows you to bypass the staff to get those things you 
    want."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - hawking market setup to make available yet still limit the 
    ability for non-merchants to sell things in the world."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This is another economy helper, though we know its not 
    perfect yet."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - guild evaluations so players have a clear indication of the 
    time in required of them in order to be eligible for a promotion in 
    their guild."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Amorvrin race fully implemented for PC spread evil 
    possibilities with the vaunted Morgathian Shadow."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Exorcise shadow ritual available to all clergy to combat 
    The Shadow of the Amorvrin race."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Variable colors and dye craft make dozens of combinations 
    of clothing and leathers available to the players via crafters."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - web enabled game access."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - preview an items mangai price with barter."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - preview an items weight before buying it from a shop."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - reset ones hunger or thirst levels so you can drink at the 
    bar all night long."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - beseeches are logged now so Gods are more likely to respond 
    to their followers even if it is not immediately."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - These are just a sampling of the achievements the staff are 
    proud of which have been made possible due to our full staff of Admins, 
    Coders and Builders."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I list these before the Agenda items to let you know that 
    we have been busy doing things. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Now on with the Agenda. To speed things I think I will just 
    start with the first one and invite comments from everyone, then we will 
    move onto the next item when it seems we have received all the feedback 
    that is forth coming."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Promotion of HL on RPI Network, TMS, TMC, NBC, CBS, ABC, 
    UNICEF and all the other acronyms, any comments?"

Someone summons someone.

Someone says, out of character,
   "HL is presently listed in TopMudSites, The Mud Connector, and The RPI 
    Network."

Someone says, out of character,
   "On TMS and TMC we can expect that other games will obviously rise higher 
    in their rankings."

Someone says, out of character,
   "They're almost all H&S crap and the kiddies always vote like rabid dogs."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But we really should make more of an effort on the RPI Network."

Someone says, out of character,
   "HL is the second oldest game on that list and half of them might as well 
    be H&S compared to this game."

Someone says, out of character,
   "This game is the definition of RPI."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Yet we get beat in their rankings by RPIs still in development. This 
    shouldn't be."

Someone says, out of character,
   "We have a playerbase. A MUD in development with 8-10 staff shouldn't 
    have half the votes we have the potential for."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It's not that hard to click a vote once a week."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And on TMS and TMC once or twice a day (depending which it is, TMS is 
    every 12 hours and I'm not sure about TMC)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I know for me the fact that I need to login to the RPI 
    Network site to vote is a deterrent. It is easier to vote on the other 
    two we have linked from the forum."

Someone says, out of character,
   "If you use MushClient (and are too cheap/lazy to register it), vote 
    while the load up screen is on."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Mind you, I'm too cheap/lazy to register it too and that's when I vote. 
    :-D."

Someone says, out of character,
   "The registration and login is a bit of a deterrent but it only takes 
    seconds."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I say we vote like rabid dogs. I also think we should get a clear idea 
    of how often we ought to vote on TMC / RPI."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - RPI Network is a weekly vote I believe."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Because I don't have a clue, and it seems I'm not the only one. Might be 
    best to mention it on the site."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Top MUD Sites is every 12 hours."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And one more thing: word of mouth. It's fun to talk about Harshlands 
    with your friends; fun on your side of the whole thing, at least."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - The links for voting at the sites we are referring to are in 
    the top right corner of the discussion board on the web."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I've seen word of mouth pull in a lot more players than voting, at least 
    in forum games; and these players tend to stay in because of the help 
    they get from the folks introducing them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This is a good topic to keep alive on the forum as we all 
    tend to forget. But if there is no more comment on this I will go onto 
    the next Agenda item."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Slings and Arrows of possible thoughts on ranged weapon 
    implementation? Let me offer our thoughts on this first."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We are very leery of Player VS Player combat from a 
    distance. If ranged combat is ever implemented we are thinking of 
    starting with just thrown weapons like spears and only used in hunting 
    situations against wildlife, not monsters, etc. The floor is open to 
    comments."

Someone arrives from a puff of smoke.

Someone lowers something's hood, revealing his features. 

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think it would be a good idea to put ranged weapons in the game, like 
    spears and throwing weapons have a range of 1 room and bows and 
    crossbows 2 rooms, perhaps test it out first on wildlife like you said, 
    then on npc's/mobs and finally for pvp, but I think the pvp should be 
    carefully monitered."

Someone says, out of character,
   "On the game I just left, combat with arrows and ranged weapons could 
    only be done in the same room. However, in theory, a ranged weapon as 
    opposed to a sword or club etc raised your defence dice several times. 
    The theory being, of course, that while you are in the same grid space, 
    you are still not right up in the target's face. If that makes sense? 
    While it'd be cool to shoot the wolf in the next room, if you're afraid 
    of abuse, then I think it's best just to not have it occur between grid 
    spaces."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Please do not speak or emote unless an admin sends you a 
    tell that you have the floor."

Someone arrives from a puff of smoke.

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Ideally, we would move in the opposite direction of that, with 
    ranged combat in the same room being impossible. Closing to melee range 
    should negate ranged weapon effectiveness, in my view. Note that the 
    staff is not in consensus on that."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And firing a ranged weapon in a 'Lawful' area would be a 
    crimflag incident."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - To combat abuse in cities and towns. Those are just my thoughts."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I'm done, whoevers turn it was can continue, Blackhorde said the 
    rest of us staffers could throw in useless side comments here and there, 
    heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think that slings would be a good idea, at least. It seems like a 
    simple form of defense. Slingshots. Also a lot of fun for some of the 
    younger characters in game. Maybe they are more a a mischevious code 
    than an offensive code? They wouldn't do much damage anyway."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Ideally I would like to see all ranged weapons implemented 
    eventually but we will start with the simplest which is the spear used 
    with the throw skill. Then move along to implement the others if we are 
    successful."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Slings / Bows / Throwing Weapons - all these should be added into the 
    game. I mean, really, how many people go hunt a rabbit with an axe and 
    approach it without the rabbit moving? You just -can't- do that, rabbits 
    and squirrels are freakishly nervous animals; you have to be at a 
    distance to catch one in any situation. How can you throw a javelin at a 
    rabbit? I tried at school, a leaf in front of me, I tried to hit it and 
    I couldn't, it took me like 10 times. Also, javelin = rat hunting, it'll 
    happen, trust me."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We understand that certain weapons are not as realistic as 
    others to use against certain things hunting and as I mentioned we want 
    to implement them all eventually but it is cleaner to work the bugs out 
    of one and then move to the next."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - One of the things Blackhorde is probably trying to get at 
    without putting too fine a point on it, is that we want ranged in the 
    woods for hunting,etc. We do not want idiots with crossbows running 
    around Tashal. So when implemented, we'll code heavily against abusive 
    behaviour."

Someone says, out of character,
   "At least having some sort of blocking system on some of the throwing 
    weapons. A pilum, javelin and a throwing spear, what sort of man would 
    even thinking of throwing something at a rat which scurries at 1 kilo 
    meter per hour across the floorboards. It's just me, but I'm not always 
    right, well never. *blush*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It is great to hear opinions to ensure we don't miss 
    things."

Someone says, out of character,
   "NEWPERSON - Well, I'm not really sure what the potential for abuse is. 
    If arrows are set to causing as much damage as daggers, you'd need to 
    use a dozen--and hit every time--to kill a PC. And by the time the third 
    one flew, they'd be across town, no? Is it possible to set the damage 
    quite high against animal mobs, yet really low against PCs? That'd seem 
    to address the problems with hunting while not endangering PCs--and 
    keeping the 'scare effect' of being suddenly nicked by an arrow."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We likely could vary the damage, an interesting idea, but 
    at the least we will start against the least damaging to the game, which 
    is hunted animals then work up from there."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Well, the throw command is already in game, is it not? You can already 
    throw a weapon and probably deal damage if there's a hit (though I 
    imagine your chances of hitting the target are slim). As for range, the 
    existing range is crossbow, same room; shortbow, 1 room; longbow, 2 
    rooms. I'm not sure longbows exist on Harn though or even crossbows. I 
    don't recall any canonical references to them. I think it also flags in 
    lawful areas but only if you connect."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Since nobody has the Throw skill but everyone has dodge 
    your chances of hitting are slim to none."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Miss the target and I don't know if you get flagged."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - No one has the throw skill so everyone currently will always 
    miss, not just slim to none hit and damage chances, but no damage 
    chances."
Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Currently you really cannot hit is what he means. Tossing a 
    weapon into an adjacent room only startles the mob in the room and 
    generally causes them to move."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I've hit many creatures by throwing spears."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We're hearing conflicting reports from another staff member on 
    this. However, most of us have never seen it happen, so its rare anyhow."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I've thrown with an atlatl and it's difficult."

Someone says, out of character,
   "There's a slim chance that you will hit even without the skill. But it's 
    slim. Better chance of finding a Laranian in drag drinking with an 
    Agrikan in Golotha."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Not a threat to anyone's survival PC or NPC at this stage, at 
    least."

Someone says, out of character,
   "To prevent their real use with combat, just nerf arrows a bit."

Someone says, out of character,
   "They are pretty powerful."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We'd rather not nerf a weapon and then make it useless for 
    hunting."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Is there a way to make it cause bleeders rather than massive damage?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We dont even have any arrow objects built so its a moot point."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Then simply have the animals set not to bind."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I think we already did that with animals and binded actually, or 
    at least, it was on the list."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Will make for more realistic hunting without the 
    kill-N/PCs-at-a-distance problem."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Binding, rather."

Someone says, out of character,
   "If the arrow causes a bleeder, PCs and NPCs could bind and that would 
    prevent their death. Animals would bleed, could be tracked, and taken 
    out."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Or simply bite it from teh bleeder."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Something to put on the code wish list whenever we get 
    around to ranged weapons."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Ok, I think we may as well move on, everyone seems to be in 
    consensus that ranged will be cool for hunting and limited combat but is 
    not appropriate for urban life."

Someone says, out of character,
   "My only concern with ranged weapons is the use of poison on a PC that 
    can't see a guy staning 10 feet away taking a beed on him."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think that all ranged weapons should be enabled , each one with his 
    own ranges/damages - because it make sense, PvP is extremely rare and i 
    found it hard to believe that a PC would die by other PC using a ranged 
    weapons, only thing i think that should be coded is that when NPCs are 
    being shot they should react, PCs could take care for themselves. 
    Players were trusted with much greater powers than ranged weapons."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Poison is not implemented in the game currently."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It requires admin intervention."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And when it is, there will be some mysterious energy field 
    surrounding the Isle of Harn that prevents its use on arrows and 
    crossbow quarrels."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Let allows it on daggers. The gods are strange like that."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Nobody else is standing on this Agenda item so I will move 
    to the next."

sit
<#Unhurt / ||||||> You sit down.

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Take a byte out of the meeting to discuss the new website. 
    Comments?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - The bluish theme blows, other than that its cool."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Love it! It looks far more professional and it looks like it was put 
    together much more nicely. However, the way the boards are built into 
    the interface is a pain. I use a scroll on my mouse (sometimes on the 
    mousepad on my laptop) and it scrolls through the board, not the whole 
    page. Otherwise, I think it's a 200 percent improvement."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I just tried to access the site and its all text or HTML."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think they engine behind the site is cool, though i think the current 
    theme is a bit 'new age' theme, i think that we should have some more 
    fantasy/medieval oriented, if we talk on graphics -alone- the old site 
    had soul into it :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Product is still in beta. Will have more themes when it is 
    live and we will try to create a more HL's type for it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Really important to update the creation info on chargen. New attributes, 
    skills, etc. should be covered."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And bring the history far more up to date."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Was a big project to move the current data, if I'm missing 
    something or something is outdated a detailed email is appreciated with 
    the URL with the erroneous data."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - WE just updated the new attributes on the site, but yes some 
    more information on skills would be useful."

Someone says, out of character,
   "So people creating backgrounds have some idea of what's happened and how 
    Harn in HL presently has evolved from the canonical Harn."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Timeline is on the to-do list. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I do store emails so if you have a timeline event you think 
    should be there send it in email."

Someone exclaims, 
   "Could we get more maps? I have spent so much time getting lost, and so I 
    decided to spend hours making a map instead. Only to be very confused. 
    Maps are good!"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We have some maps in the Contributions section. If you are 
    interested in Harnworld you can also buy their products to get a feel 
    for the world."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We are Harn pushers. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I am dirt poor :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - If you have a map and want to share with others we will add 
    it to the site."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Maps come from player contributions, and some are there and 
    others we put in the Geography section, if they do not seem to violate 
    copywrite agreemeents."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - I would suggest checking both the contributions and geography 
    sections and if you do not find something helpful, make a post on the 
    dicussion board asking other players if they have made a map of the area 
    you want."

Someone says, 
   "I am talking about actual grid structure. I mean I understand that you 
    want to keep the mystery of exploration there...but it's really 
    frustrating when you can't even find where your character is from."

Someone says, out of character,
   "There are maps of the Heras-Trobridge-Bjornnson area only cause I'm a 
    total geek and mapped them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "They take about 30 hours minimum and some are the result of 60+ hours of 
    work."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And I'm not in the Tashal area."

Someone says, out of character,
   "That's why they're Tharda and TB areas only so far."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We like to avoid actual step by step map distribution for the 
    woodlands if possible. It should be up to PCs to explore. And also as 
    the game is build and modified they would never remain accurate for the 
    long term."

Someone says, out of character,
   "They just cover the Salt Route itself, not off it more than 1 room. In 
    any respect, I'm afraid to say my last two maps have been slow in 
    coming, but when I finally get them done, that'll take care of pretty 
    much EVERYTHING on the west side of the Farin. *grin* All the more 
    reason to make your character from Tharda. [shameless plug] THARDA 
    ROCKS! [/shameless plug]."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Running on to the next Agenda item. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Harn The Next Generation, aka aging canonical characters 
    need updating aka How the hell old is that crazy old Morgathian anyway?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "Harn canonical characters are set in 720 TR."

Someone says, out of character,
   "We're approaching 760 TR."

Your thoughts begin to drift. (Idle)

Someone says, out of character,
   "That's 40 years. Some were already old."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'll use the Prefect of Coranan, Toribir Wejik, as an example. Harn 
    canon lists him as 57 years old in 720 TR."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Old coot's approaching 97."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'm not sure how staff wants to portray old age, but that's in the realm 
    of immortal in medieval terms."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Willard Scott would have been putting their picture up on the square at 
    age 50 in medieval times."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I am sure everyone realizes Harshlands is huge. Aging every 
    major NPC in the world would be a monumental task. Ideally we need to 
    assume that if it is not NPC X, then it is his son that took over, etc 
    in most situations."

Someone summons someone.

Someone says, out of character,
   "A few months back, I started a list of every position of political 
    influence (either possessing or requiring to achieve) in Tharda. I've 
    not worked on it in a couple months, but when I finish it, I'll be happy 
    to submit it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I've replaced a good number of the Kaldor side NPCs, and for 
    many of our less well known NPCs, shopkeepers and what not, we assume 
    their children of same clan name take over,etc. But I havent touched 
    Tharda really, with exception to adding the odd new personage who didnt 
    exist in canon."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It does help though to have names to work with for major figures."

Someone says, out of character,
   "What about the other kingdoms? Who's King of Orbaal? Melderyn? These 
    things might very well be common knowledge. (this ties in with a later 
    topic on the agenda obviously)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It should be noted as well that not every NPC in Harnworld 
    is represented with an NPC, so when it comes time to use an NPC we 
    usually have the foresight to check its history and see if that NPC or a 
    replacement should be used."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And yeah we should really update Tharda, one of the things that 
    has kept NPC updates from the forefront is that so few PCs ever have 
    reason or ability to communicate with such persons anyhow."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Okay, my turn. I think there is indeed no reason not to adjust NPCs that 
    are rarely talked to anyway. However, it would be nice if a list were 
    made of aging NPCs, and the players could submit new NPCs to replace 
    them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Its really something I'd love to get more into, given what I've 
    done of it so far. One of the things though is in all honesty even when 
    I provide new NPC names, or even build actual mobs for them, they are so 
    rarely used that it seems a waste of time. Or other staffers dont know 
    who is who."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It certainly is a project all in its own that requires alot 
    of time and constant update."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I personally volunteer to do all that, if any new NPCs are required. 
    Besides, there's also the option of using old, retired PCs, with the 
    players' permission."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - For example, I actually built mobs for 85 percent of the major 
    Lords, Barons and Earls of Kaldor, but who ever talks to these people. 
    Who needs this information other than the rare, highly placed PC."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It would feel great to interact with one of your old characters again, 
    seeing her a full master of the clothiers' guild. I'm sure plenty of 
    players dropped out of playing a journeyman or an apprentice, who wa 
    then in a position to advance."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - No doubt, though alot of those names/descs were lost in 
    migration."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I think one of us accidentily deleted the mob for Marita too, in 
    case anyone wonders why you can never see her."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Also, I wanted to mention that lots of times, I visit an NPC's shop and 
    have no idea what his name is, even though my PC has dealt with him 
    thousands of times. It would be nice if there were a command that 
    revealed well-known information about the target NPC, as well as his 
    name."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Usually the name of the shop is the name of the NPC."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Heru Lexigraphy comes to mind... But anyway. Those were my thoughts."

Someone summons someone.

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Good points. Racing along to the next agenda topic."
Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - It wouldnt be too hard to do that for Tashal and TB, run around 
    jotting down names in a forum post. A project for a weekend, but for the 
    whole gameworld it would be sucky."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Living World Rumour Posts "Rethem? That's still around?" 
    aka Keeping the rest of Harnic events in the news."
Someone bows respectfully.

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This is something I wish we were better at. But it is 
    another time consuming task that requires constant attention and 
    updating and keeping track of what is what."

Someone sighs.

Someone says, out of character,
   "A lot of people probably have no idea who the present king of Orbaal is. 
    Or what's going on with Rethem."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I've tried time and again to get into doing that and I'll add a 
    thing here or there but then it falls by the wayside."
Someone says, out of character,
   "Or for that matter, whether Rethem still exists (as canon refers to its 
    instability)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - And quite possibly they'd never know. Usually harpers 
    carried news, this would be a good role for a PC, to carry news around 
    and let others know of things."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Yes, but it's assumed there are NPC harpers."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I even had a whole thing written for Rethem actually, going back 
    years to when the Companions of the Roving Doom were forced out and 
    ended up in Tharda fighting with the cohort."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And that stuff like the Rethemi-Kandayan animosity has broken into some 
    form of conflict."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - One of the issues with such news though, is trying to find a way 
    of imparting to the reader what is news that they can logically do 
    something about, and that which is pure background noise that they can 
    do nothing about."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I havent figured that one out yet, but am open to suggestions."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I proposed a few months (gosh, maybe years...time flies) that it might 
    be good for off-screen wars to be mentioned."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Maybe Kanday and Rethem."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Or Chybisa and Melderyn."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Too often if the staff offer any information it carries 
    along with it the assumption of some grand quest that must be followed."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - See my last comments. Because invariably someone will try to go 
    there, and thats a problem."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Nothing that would require lots of staff running around doing, but 
    leaking news that keeps the rest of the island from seemingly 
    disappearing."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Well, that's the good part of Kanday and Rethem: they're not built. *g*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Those are the only exceptions though, if I report news from 
    Chybisa (and I even have some, in fact some of the PCs even have some 
    from recently) or Orbaal then its an issue."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And after a while, people will get used to seeing information without 
    thinking it's something they ahve to jump in and run to."

Someone says, out of character,
   "In keeping in line with updating old NPC, and as was referenced on the 
    forum."

Someone says, out of character,
   "In keeping in line with updating old NPC, and as was referenced on the 
    forum."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Taking a look at empty shops or shops in populated areas and restocking 
    them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We have moved to the next agenda item. IF you find a shop 
    missing items just send a petition or email if you have a list you feel 
    they should have."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - That'd be great, but we have enough trouble keeping the 
    populated areas running with all accessibility for all the craft 
    ingrediants, etc that people need. Foreign shortcomings are majorly 
    backburner, but one could email."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Sorry if that sounded like I was shooting it down, just trying 
    to address stuff quick so we can move along at a good pace."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - No more comments on the Next Generation of Harn? That is 
    our current Agenda item."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Thats almost a topic in itself, as often we just try to address 
    stuff as quickly as possible and move on, and that sounds like we're not 
    interested in ppl's concerns."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Just throwing that out quickly, one of the reasons for the 
    meeting is to show we are interested in concerns. But have limited time 
    to deal with them, so try to be accepting of a certain degree of curt 
    responses. Especially from Blackhorde, heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I am a man of few words. :)."
Someone says, in a somewhat rasping voice., 
   "Ok, as far as these 70 and 80 year old vNPC's are concerned I want to 
    echo the feeling that they should be phased out and we move on to a new 
    generation of them...."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Duly noted, but until a vNPC comes up to be used we will 
    likely have little reason to figure out who has replaced them."

Someone says, in a somewhat rasping voice., 
   "Next, I feel that as far as other Kingdoms off the mudmap are concerned 
    most of that can just be dealt with via information mailed around or 
    Rp'd out in the subplots sponsored by staff..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "SOMEONE ELSE - This world-updaing would be great, but I doubt it's the 
    best use of the staff's time. How about if those interested players 
    organize on the forum, put together a group to present a detailed list 
    of suggestions for the staff to consider? (after getting whatever 
    thoughts Revus, etc., already scribbled down). And if there are -enough- 
    of these things, I think players won't consider them 'quests' so much, 
    once we got used to hearing about them. Additionally ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - A good idea, sort of like the Harn Guild and Harn Religion 
    team, have a Harshlands NPC team."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - A player driven initiative along those lines would be very 
    good, I agree. It lets us update those npc's and vnpc's most interesting 
    to the PC's, yes."

Someone says, out of character,
   "SOMEONE ELSE - ... can't these bits of world-updating be posted to the 
    in-game OOC forums, say, as a way of telling players that yes, this is 
    happening and they're welcome to use the information as 'background 
    noise,' but no, there's no particular plot happening they they're 
    supposed to leap into action to satisfy."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I guess, though that would really be more of an IC forum wouldnt 
    it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Excellent idea and we really appreciate when the players 
    get involved in these side projects for the game, such as creating their 
    own sites for organizations, etc. The staff will support these projects 
    as best as possible."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Well it would be suggestions on who should be updated, such as 
    those who die and are replaced and what not. We would still need to 
    decide what happens with those suggestions."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I will close this item for now and move to the next. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Money! or How I Won the Lottery Hunting Rabbits and Other 
    Matters of Economic Balance."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - *groans*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I think we have gone a long way to rectifying this with our 
    Hawking market. You can no longer just sell to anybody in the world."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Are the gold coins that I saw during beta in the game for character use?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I hate to steal the floor from the players but this is really as 
    much a player responsibility to police themselves as it is a staff one, 
    probably more theirs really."

Someone summons someone.

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Gold coins and gold pennies exist, but you will never 
    receive them as change from a purchase in a shop."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - They do act as currency now though, which is nice."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But can you, with admin help, exchange silver for them at a usery?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - You would need to pursue that IC."

Someone says, in a somewhat rasping voice., 
   "Well, you " generally " cant sell much to any of of the NPC's in the 
    hawking markets either and I'm noting that the player-player economy 
    still is'nt working optimally...maybe timers could be put in as to how 
    much of an item a shop will buy at a given time, but this constant " 
    Sorry, I dont buy those things." responses from shopkeepers who have 
    nothing in inventory seems a little off to me...maybe we're not talking 
    about shops right now, though..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - If you have a hawking license you should always be able to 
    sell at the market. If you don't have one you won't be able to. If you 
    are interested in a hawking license seek them in game."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Might be a good idea to list common incomes somewhere so players have a 
    notion of what they should be earning instead of chugging through 
    thinking they need to make 1000 pence a month or they're a slacker."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I think primarily Millie has intended that people not sell to 
    shops anymore. And sell to the markets instead using their 1 hawking 
    license or whatever. Built NPC shops are there to sell stuff, not buy 
    stuff with exception of the scrap mercantyles which should not be abused 
    too much."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And they are being abused."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We can post the common incomes, please email about that to 
    remind us."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - I think we are talking about anything that makes players coin, 
    either too much or too little. I am always open to suggestions on how 
    people can make a livable income without making it too easily flood 
    everyone with silver."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Or at least til we get the discount/markup bug thing fixed."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - And I think the markup/discount things are fixed actually."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Also had a thought that might require a bit of time to achieve but if 
    NPCs were equipped with different armor with a cost set at little or 
    nothing, it would discourage the thought of looting corpses for coin 
    since the armor would be assumed damaged in combat."

Someone says, out of character,
   "SHYE - There's also the notion that in the time period, people weren't 
    sitting on piles of money, they used it for things rather than a 200 lb. 
    weight to roll in."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Well that shows I should login more than twice a wekk."

Someone says, out of character,
   "While craft-created and sold (ie, PC-worn) armor would have the cost set 
    properly."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Uh, interesting concept but I'd rather not go that route. Alot 
    of legitimate income came from taking booty in that era, and duels where 
    the loser forfeits their arms,etc."

Someone says, 
   "I haven't played here in a few years, but it seems to me a lot of code 
    has been put in place that really...makes no sense IC. And I understand 
    you want to keep power-gamers from getting rich-- but can an alternative 
    to this hawking market and license business be found? Because...no 
    disrespect to the person who dveeloped it, but it makes absolutely no 
    realistic sense. I'm really confused about the whole thing."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Ack I am sorry, I didn't mean to hit enter."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The hawking license does make sense. It is illegal in this 
    world to sell anywhere outside of a market because the things sold in 
    their are taxed."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - No offense taken, we are forced by necessity to code/built 
    unrealistic solutions to abusive players. They may be a small segment of 
    the playerbase but they cause alot of problems."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I noticed that the clergy's requirements for advancement involve how 
    much he tithes and how many people he converts; the average acolyte 
    makes 20 silvers from his monthly salary, last I checked. That doesn't 
    leave much coin for tithing, so people seem forced to take a guild job 
    on the side to get by, or court the nearly non-existent playerbase for 
    potential converts."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - But actually the hawking markets do make sense anyway as 
    Blackhorde said."

Someone says, out of character,
   "May I add on or should I hush until I am called on again? :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The idea is not that the clergyman use his own pay to tithe 
    but to gather tithes from others. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - With a more developed laity they would be receiving gifts in 
    exchange for blessings and favors and tithing that, I realize with a 
    playerbase this size we dont have enough to represent that."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Yeah, except there's no one else to convert. People want to play 
    morgathian embalmers or peonian farmers. Their religion is bound to 
    their concept."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - To give everyone a turn try not to ramble too much. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - The current speaker may speak until done. Right."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'm, erm, done..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "My problem is, there are things the hawking markets won't buy. Or that 
    they'll only buy a certain quanitity of. If they won't buy it, or if 
    only a certain person within the hawking market buys it, a character has 
    to wait another month-- theoretically after the items had already 
    spoiled. But with vNPC and NPC population, a character should be able to 
    sell his/her harvest if there are no PCs who will purchase these items. 
    And I'm purely talking harvest things here. I always thought the hawking 
    market was there to represent vNPC and NPC consumers."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Mercantylers would ideally be a good source to meet and 
    sell your things to."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - PC Mercantylers would ideally be a good source to meet and 
    sell your things to."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - THe hawking markets are the mercantylers who buy from non 
    mercantylers, they are the legal way to sell in the market when there is 
    no PC mercantyler to sell to. Also if you are not able to sell the 
    amount indicated you can sell, either wait just a couple of seconds or 
    petition. Each month you should be able to sell a set amount, but 
    sometimes there is a 2 second or so lag while the merchant 'cleans out 
    his shop' to buy more."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Ideally that shouldn't happen often."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - But you should certainly be able to sell the full value of what 
    the hawking person is supposed to buy, and if you cannot it should be a 
    rare to null issue that you should petition about."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Absolutely-- I both use and abuse them, PC Mercantylers. But what do we 
    do about things that are grown that hawking markets won't buy, and are 
    needed/desired by PC players? That's what I thought the market was for."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Aren't, my apologies."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Such as?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Maybe best dealt with in email?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "Not to give myself away here, but "a bundle of cooking herbs" isn't a 
    big hawking market seller :-)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Right if you are trying to produce a non-guilded item that no 
    one buys, send an email and I will see if there should be a buyer."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Those should be able to sold to the grocer."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Yeah. Theres alot of items in the game, and what is or isnt 
    sellable depends on how the item is built.. that can be dealt with via 
    email in case by case basis."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Alright, I surrender the floor. Oh, well, I've tried, I'll try again and 
    email."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - But probably best to take that in email at this point, specific 
    items that you want to produce and sell."

Someone asks, 
   "The part of the hawking market that makes no sense to me is that you 
    need to buy a license, wait for it to mature, then go and sell, then 
    wiat a whole month to get another one to mature, and etc. Why can't I 
    just go to the market and sell my goods?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Because you'll sell 1000d worth of goods."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Which isn't realistic."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE Oddly Revus stated exactly the figure I was about to say."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And there wouldnt be enough money in the market for 20 farmers 
    and others to sell that much each every day, week,etc."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - THe hawking market is a way to make a reasonable living."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It is our systematic way to slow down sellers."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Yet still allow period selling."

Someone says, 
   "No. I won't sell 1000 dram worth of good because it would take me 3 rl 
    months of non stop work to get that much together :) But why not just 
    limit how much a person can sell each week? That way when I need stenis 
    I don't have to sit around and wait so long. I can go earn a few at a 
    time."

Someone asks, 
   "Or a supply and demand system, where the market only buys relative to 
    what it sells?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We could do that, but we'd have to lower the amount you can sell 
    accordingly. And that would require making many more trips to get the 
    same amount of coin. Not sure that would be less frustrating for most."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - The limit is a real life week actually not a real life month. I 
    suppose I could make it a faster maturity rate and selling for less coin 
    each time, but some items like some herbs and furs are very expensive, 
    and making them only be able to by 10d of stuff would cut some sales off 
    entirely."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I see. Well I think I will just hush now and try and understand how it 
    works now, before I make any more suggestions. It's cool that you guys 
    are working to find a happy solution so I can be content with that."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Supply and demand system is not coded and would likely 
    require quite alot of thought and .. coding."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - *laughs*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Allways feel free to email other suggestions about it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "; laughs. Yes, but in the long run, it's a great thing to have. And 
    thanks. *sits now*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Its a patched together system we know, but is necessary so we 
    dont have farmers and herb gatherers who are wealthier than nobles and 
    master weaponcrafters."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACHORDE - 4 in the queue to speak. Just FYI."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Speaking about the economic system, i've recently found out that as 
    apprentice weaponsmith there is not much you can do besides pratice 
    weapons, since the 'breaking code' is currently broken there is no need 
    of practice weapons and my character will remain locked inside beinng 
    poor circle if he won't use the OOC market, i wonder what can be done 
    besides that AND when the breaking code will be fixed? (and i am sorry 
    if it wounds like a personal problem, but i think it does effect the 
    whole game, weapon crafters at least :) )."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Breaking code is on the to-do list for code. :(."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We gave a huuuuge code list."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Hopefully soon, no one has really been able to figure out why it 
    doesnt work anymore."

Someone says, out of character,
   "An idea to address the clergy-advancement problem: PCs get piety for 
    tithing directly to the church, and clergy gets piety for getting other 
    PC's silver to tithe, but it's a zero-sum game. If I give a priest 
    silver directly, I don't get piety--only he does. So how about this: a 
    PC gets -more- piety for tithing to a recognized member of the clergy, 
    -and- the clergy get the piety, too. That is, players could tithe 
    directly to clergy PC (if only inside the temple), and it'd appear 
    automatically in the temple coffers, and they'd both be more highly 
    rewarded with piety than if they used vnpcs."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - It annoys me to death, as well. I don't know why it was 
    necessary to break that in the first place."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Good one for the code wish list."

Someone says, out of character,
   "A step back to Hawking - Is the hawking market only for selling produce 
    or as does it also represent caravans and other mercantylers the craft 
    players can sell their hard goods too?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Anyone who wants to sell non-guild items can sell them 
    there."

Someone says, out of character,
   "So its for NON GUILD items only?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Correct."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I just had one idea really. Most of the plots I"ve noticed involve our 
    fighter types going off to do their thing..or a country getting invaded 
    or such..I was wondering if there could be craft plots..sort of like 
    Tashal's summer markets...or droughts or large harvests for farmers?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Special social events are on the to-do list."

Someone says, out of character,
   "TFBC - Just wanted to add that I have spoken with Blackhorde on a number 
    of occasions about a supply and demand economy system that I have in 
    mind, though at this stage no detailed document has been written, but 
    essentially I have in mind an economy on a number of levels, from a 
    world view, all the way down to direct interface with local 
    suppliers/merchants."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Neat."

Someone says, out of character,
   "TFBC - It is a huge project though, and sitting behind a number of other 
    large projects which are further along... like law code... not to 
    mention bug fixes."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Yes, we try to balance fixing things with new 
    functionality."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Not to be a wet blanket but how many topics are there, I'd like 
    to have dinner sometime tonight, heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We are on 6 of 15. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - That was my less than finesse way of saying.. Next topic lets 
    move ppl. ;-)."

Someone says, 
   "As for Clergy, I've noted that there is really too much emphasis on 
    Conversion as the formula for advancement, it leads to a lot of wholly 
    unrealistic situations and often to false conversions which are later 
    disallowed to the Clergy PC...something which happened to my last Clergy 
    PC over and over. Would'nt it be better to make good works done for the 
    Church to be of greater importance in Clergy advancement ie. projects ? 
    The Tithe requirement I have no problem with, but I think we're 
    overemphasizing the Conversion thing. We really need a much larger 
    playerbase to make that realistic in my opinion and experience with HL."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Feel free to ignore Revus, each of you will get your turn 
    who stand. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I agree with him on the clergy thing."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Conversion is not a requirement of advancement. See the 
    webpage for requirements on clergy advancement. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I think he means less emphasis, as there isnt really a 
    requirement. But I have often heard us tell people to convert more when 
    they ask about advancement, its a fair point."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Okies."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Just a quick question..back to the buying and selling...is it possible 
    to make it so heavy perm objects like beds and all can be carried at a 
    low weight until set down? lol."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Being aroung to actually represent the faith, and representing 
    it *well*, should be more of a factor."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Hmmm, sounds like a code wish list thing, sorry."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Running to the enxt topic while we can!"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Magic in its Place and a Place for Magic. Proper use of 
    magic and psionics."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I feel our magic and psionics are pretty well represented, 
    more clergy would be nice, less bragging about abilities a bonus, etc. 
    But all in all not bad."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - good grief."

Someone says, 
   "I think we have all the magic and psionics we'll ever need already."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - *claps*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Okies. :) No other comments on this?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "Since no one else was commenting... I wish it were mentioned on the site 
    that clerics need aura for their ritual skill. I always leave aura at 
    the bottom because I don't expect to play a mage/psionic, but I love my 
    current cleric."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Yes, I suppose we are not overly clear on what stats go 
    with what skills, mostly to minimize min/maxing."
Someone says, out of character,
   "Thought it should be added to the docs; and it would be nice if 
    superstition was introduced, too. Things that looked like magic, but had 
    no coded effect. Things to terrify folks and get you burned as a witch. 
    That's all."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I just think we should emphasize the low magic aspect of the world. And 
    having seen past incidents with some clergy a little too liberal with 
    their use of assistance from their deity, that it not become too common. 
    Preserve the low-magic feel!"

Someone summons someone.

Someone says, out of character,
   "SHYE - There's a list of superstitions on the Forum, just FYI."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Our website states the low magic idea of the world. 
    *shrugs*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Moving on to the next topic, good points though."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - New staff position, a 'Player Advocate' who doesn't have 
    access to the building port or staff areas, but who addresses player 
    complaints and frustrations."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And being a psi can still get you burned as a witch if not 
    careful, there."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I would pity anyone with that job, truly."

Someone says, out of character,
   "SHYE - Heck even not being a psi can get you burned heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Sorry that was meant to be an ichat message, heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think we could use a new staffer, who doesn't deal with -everything-, 
    as there seems to be an overwhelming amount of things to deal with, but 
    is the staffer whose -job- it is to get pestered. And yeah, Revus, it'd 
    be a pretty big hassle, often--but a boon to many players, too. 
    Particulary new ones."

Someone says, out of character,
   "So often, players say, 'Oh, I didn't want to pester staff with this or 
    that,' and are afraid to approach staff, for whatever reason, with 
    issues they they are stupid or troublesome, or staff will dislike them 
    for raising. I think someone to bridge the gap, there, whose whole 
    purpose was to bridge that gap, could be really useful."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I am not sure how they would find this other staffer more 
    approachable than any other admin."

Someone says, out of character,
   "With issues 'that they -think- are stupid or' ... that is. Well, because 
    it'd be this staffers entire -job- to deal with the 'pestering' stuff, 
    and to hold hands, and all fo that."

Someone says, out of character,
   "SHYE - Keep in mind sometimes other PCs can help PCs who are lost, in 
    game, with OOC or taking them aside. If they feel generous and have the 
    time."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Now, staff knows that _I_ pester with impunity. But there are many 
    players who are afraid of doings so. And if there's a long-term player 
    or an ex-staffer, say, who the current staff trusts, who's willing to 
    step into a role like this ... Well,I wanted to reaise the idea."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We're talking about it on ichat, to be honest its an intriquing 
    idea but some of the problems are the OOC info sharing that would go on, 
    that person would definately have to be on staff, at least level 1 or 
    higher, and I have a feeling they would get awful tired of 'towing the 
    party line' for us pretty quickly. Just to be brutally honest."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Thought I'd say that in case you were wondering at the silence."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Might be interesting to hear other opinions on this than 
    the original speaker."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Yeah, but this is specifically to address the gulf between players and 
    staff. And I'll sit down, now, and see if I'm the only player who thinks 
    this would be useful! Oh, but Revus, yes: I think they'd have to be 
    somehow -outside- the party line, in fact. And they could say, 'Yeah, I 
    thinks staff screwed this one up, but they -do- have some reasons for 
    it, they're not -just- being idiots!' Okay, sitting ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think assistants is a good idea, make few players who can see 
    petitions and answer back to the players, or maybe it would be possible 
    to make some OOC question/answer channel were people could ask things 
    globally about game mechanics. Helping people and new players should be 
    everyone main goal, no point voting on RP networks when no one supports 
    the people who come in from those place as newbies, i had doubtable 
    pleasure to make two characters recently(over short time) in tashal and 
    was greating disappoint that no one between the 15-20 people who were on 
    came to check who came."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I am CONSTANTLY pestering the staff and I am never turned away, and they 
    never sound annoyed, or bothered, or pestered, or your word of choice. I 
    ask everything from questions that if I researched I could probably 
    answer myself, to code questions, to "Mille Millie Shye Shye will you 
    build something for me?" to "animate this NPC for some small obscure 
    reason" etc. etc. Again, there's never been much of a problem with it. 
    No one ever seemed short with me. Creating a middleman creates problems. 
    Besides, new players are going to see that we have a player advocate and 
    think, "This game is run so badly that we need an advocate?"."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - *LOL* Not just eh? I think we do an okay job of explaining the 
    why we do this/thats already. If we dont and there is some actual gulf 
    I'm unaware of then I guess I'm talking out of my ass."

Someone materializes before your eyes.

Someone says, 
   "I just want to say quickly that I think it's a splendid idea, for the 
    reasons already stated. If I know there is a staffer who is there just 
    to assist me, who isn't bogged down with code and running the game, I'd 
    be a lot more comfortable bugging them with things that, while petty, 
    may be frustrating me to no end. Not that the staffers who have helped 
    me haven't been cool people. On the other hand this has to be someone 
    who is without question trustworthy. Elsemu staff has players that they 
    use for this and a lot of them...cheat. Big time. On the other hand, I 
    advocated for an ooc channel on this game years ago and I still advocate 
    for it. I am so in the dark about so many things on this game, and have 
    almost no way of contacting anyone for the simplest issues except to run 
    into a person in game and use ooc to say "Help me please!" and then they 
    don't know the answer half the time. I feel like I am stumbling around 
    in the dark most of the time."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We definitely urge players to email if they have questions. 
    It takes us time to respond, but we make it a point to answer emails 
    that are straight forward."

Someone says, 
   "Well the thing with emails and boards is that sometimes it can take 
    paragraphs and days whereas a simple conversation can take a few minutes 
    and answer all the questions, you know? :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We also understand that alot of times another player is not 
    really the best person to ask a question."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Hmm. Another thing to consider is that a middleman would need to 
    filter the requests and concerns to what is relevant and legitimate 
    before presenting it to the staff, if only due to sheer volume. Such a 
    person would need to be trusted by both staff and players alike."

Someone says, 
   "Such a person is very hard to find."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Yeah, good luck with that. If there were more of them, we'd have 
    more staff too."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Cuz often you have no time, or alot less, for your own 
    character. It often comes down to picking one or the other."

Someone says, 
   "What about an ooc channel instead, so players can help each other? I 
    mean I understand or can guess the reasons against it, but with staff 
    keeping an eye on it, it wouldn't be easy to cheat with it. And cheaters 
    will find another way to cheat without it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - ok, I am hearing from the staff that I should apologize for 
    being honest, heh."

Someone says, 
   "I believe it'd also add more of a sense of community. Anyway I'm done :)."

Someone says, 
   "Ages upon ages ago...we had staff that would offer time as Newbie Guides 
    in the Mud. I thought that was a great idea and I'm sure there are loyal 
    longtime players that would offer their time in that context. When I 
    used to play in Tashal I would constantly run into new players that were 
    utterly lost in the maze and just logged off in frustration. Would be 
    nice if we re-implemented that role..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We encourage players to help new people, discretely of 
    course and take them aside."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Forums, forums, forums, forums, people! Use them. Post general questions 
    and ye shall receieve assistance from players (and you can then if 
    necessary add a slight bit of more detail, but don't give out too much 
    IC info). If it's sooooooo IC you can't tell it to another, email staff. 
    They respond. I email them like it's going out of style and I get 
    responses back. I'm not special. I'm a player and they do try to help 
    players."

Someone says, out of character,
   "ORIGINAL SPEAKER - Well, many games -do- have player advocates or 
    'player helpers', and that's just considered a -service- to players, not 
    an admission of some sort of problem. And I think both things can be 
    true, Revus: you do a good job explaining and responding to email -and- 
    there's a gulf. THere almost has to be, in a relationship in which one 
    party has so much more power. And yeah, picking the right person would 
    be tough, and I obviously can't speak to that. But if no ex-staff or 
    long-term player springs immediately to mind ... maybe staff can just 
    keep this idea in mind for when it does? And finally ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - 3 in queue to speak."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Original Speaker - ... this is not meant in any way as an insult to the 
    current staff, (now -that- is best kept to email!) who clearly do more 
    work than I'm even aware exists, but it's -also- not meant for those of 
    us who speak hours in a dark room for a meeting like this, and are 
    totally invested in the game! It's for new players and casual players, 
    to help hold -their- hands, more than -our-s."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I missed the start of this topic, but it this sounds to me like what 
    Shadows of Isildur already has implemented and is likely in the 
    codebase(GUIDES). Which is the GUIDES. They can do low level imm work. 
    Like check out generic character apps (no special needs), deal with DB 
    questions/problems and I believe they have like the 'first' level 
    support for email needs. Though if they don't it would be a good thing 
    to have here. Something the imms can monitor, but that the guides would 
    answer to help with newbie questions and stuff. The response time would 
    be quicker with several people able to answer and it would free up the 
    admins to focus on other areas. However, all this said - it's really for 
    the staff to decide if they do feel it's a drain on them. As players we 
    don't see inside the blackbox all the magic that goes on."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I don't know how plausible this is code-wise. But here is our 
    potential alternative. We currently have a system were imms receive 
    petition notes at login, and can reply via email in an automated way. If 
    something like that could be developed for certain designated players, 
    they'd receive questions at login and could reply thru the in-game 
    editor and it'd go out over email."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Still not sure how much coding that would be though."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - But it would provide a way of contacting player-guides without 
    having to physically meet with them and use the ooc command, which is 
    sucky."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Alternately, we could just provide names/emails of volunteers 
    and let it happen outside the game."

Someone says, out of character,
   "That's mainly for application review (a level between players and imms). 
    The email account would be simple to set up, just have the GUIDES 
    receive whatever general email goes out (along with staff). Still I just 
    say this is more a workload to imm needs question, not really for 
    players to decide."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I really disagree with an ooc channel.. I think that it would lead to 
    unfortunate spamming no matter how it was monitored. I think the whole 
    concept of ooc questions really boils down to how comfortable a new 
    player feels about asking for ooc help. As for an additional staff 
    position, I think that as long as the staff don't go crazy with the 
    questions we send their way, there won't be any difference between 
    emailing the player advocate and emailing the staff. I like the idea of 
    volunteers being able to be contacted through email, though.. if people 
    are afraid to talk to the staff."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Ichat is discussing a guides@harshlands.net email address 
    that veteran players could volunteer to be a part of. So you email 
    guides and the guides can respond."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We definitely like layers of help, we just don't want to 
    distance the players from the staff at all."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I really like that idea and think that it would be a welcome addition 
    for new players if they have questions they think might be too trivial 
    for the staff.. and guides could refer players to staff if they believe 
    that the question should go to them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And a single middleman half-staffer would do that, and they'd 
    burn out quick."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Good points on this topic, we'll move on to the next agenda 
    item now."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Plus it would ruin their own character's experience as per my 
    previous unfiltered comment awhile ago."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Balancing the effort of one crafter compared to another to 
    ensure the same level of achievement in their outcome and time cost in 
    order for it to remain playable (since the crafts are supposed to be in 
    service to the RP, not vice versa)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - As a staff comment on this one we have alot of crafts 
    created by alot of different people over the years, so they certainly 
    aren't balanced I suppose."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - I have noted that some crafts may take too long in game. I may 
    start implementiong more timers for more crafts, meaning you may be able 
    to do the craft quite quickly but not again for an hour or so, to pmote 
    less time in workrooms and more rp."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Yet still not have a too-fast crafting system."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I would suggest switching from an exhaustive system to a normative one, 
    since that takes care of a lot of arbitrary factors as well."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - No idea what you mean. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "In a normative system, you first design all the rules, which are meant 
    to apply for all possible situations; and you only tinker with the rules 
    themselves when you want to make adjustments."

Someone says, out of character,
   "In an exhaustive system, you would set timers, skill checks and costs 
    for every craft..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We sorta have to work with the code we have. Crafts are it 
    currently. :(."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Large overhauls of systems take large amounts of time and 
    coder dedication."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Wish I knew anything about HL's database, because then I'd volunteer to 
    code the whole thing. It seems pretty easy to me, but perhaps I'm just 
    being naive. Oh, well. *done*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Yup, sorry to blow it outta the water, but alot has gone into 
    getting crafts more workable, changing to another system mid-stream isnt 
    viable currently."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - If anyone has a coder friend with a crafting system, feel 
    free to hook us up though. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - To quote G.W.Bush 'We gotta stay the course, heh... heh.. heh'."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Timers represent the time needed to complete something so that instead 
    of a craft taking 1 game hour, it would only take 4 game minutes, but 
    the timer would be in effect as if it were taking 1 hour. That way you 
    can actually do something other than idle while hte craft is in effect."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Right."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Right, that is what I was pondering for a lot of the crafts 
    that take over 2 or so minutes now."

Someone says, out of character,
   "The alternatives are really whether or not to break up crafts into a 
    variety of smaller tasks or simply one craft with integrated tasks."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Ie, make wool-cloak OR cut material, sew material, etc."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Sorta like our travel time constraints. You can roleplay, 
    we just don't want you moving along or creating more things when we feel 
    you've done what you should be able to do in a time frame."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Moving on to the next agenda item."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - How much effort are the staff willing to offer in order to 
    provide players with in-game character accessible information?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - One issue is smaller tasks mean many more crafts and at some 
    point it becomes ad nauseum."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Good question. I am a touch typist so I'm game for putting 
    things in the game, but time again is our enemy."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think it's great that you guys have made progress on making things 
    more autonomous for craftsmen and traders; the."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Gah! Sorry. One sec."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think it's great that you guys have made progress on making things 
    more autonomous for craftsmen and traders; the scholars are lagging 
    behind, though. Granted, there's few of them, and with few people to 
    write books, there are no opportunities for scholars to RP as actual 
    scholars - no ways to gain new knowledge besides travelling and hearing 
    gossip. Which are not the kinds of things scholars are known for. Apart 
    from writing theory, compiling player-written songs and such, my only 
    option is to turn to the staff."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Asking the staff for information directly, then compiling it all in an 
    in-game book, sounds like a good way to waste the staff's time. It would 
    be nice, though, if, when designing some ruin or special location, a 
    written reference could be made in regards to it and disseminated 
    throughout local or regional libraries, based on its importance. And if 
    players were allowed to submit information for libraries without their 
    characters actually being able to read or write... Just to simulate the 
    scholarly activity in Harn."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Bottom line is, scholars are supposed to know more stuff than the 
    average Joe. And right now, even below-average Zeke knows a helluva lot 
    more than me, because I have access to in-game libraries and he got 
    access to Harn canon. The only scholarly RP I have access to right now 
    involves teaching others how to read and write - and while I love the RP 
    of it, I still need a really veteran player to finalize their studies 
    (i.e. use the "teach" command), because there are so few things to 
    practice my literacy & script skills on."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - I am a fan of trying to get groups to be able to share and 
    protect information. But also if one group asks for that information and 
    should always have it, hopefully we can preserve it in some way, which 
    is a lot easier now with the writing sytem. If the staff gives you 
    information you are encouraged to preserve it for your group or whatever 
    reason if you feel it should be preserved for their later reference."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Ignorance works wonders at preserving secrecy; if nobody but one 
    particular group asks, nobody else is gonna know."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - This comes down to roleplay again. We expect if you're joe 
    nobody that you'll have some integrity and roleplay that your character 
    does not have all the Harn knowledge that you have. This allows scholars 
    to play up the knowledge they do have on Harn."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - On that topic though, we've frequently given lots of info out 
    when asked, that is, when asked for specific info on specific things. 
    Rather than 'tell me everything about x' requests."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Those who should be able to research a topic and find an answer 
    are encouraged to contact the staff to determine if they found what they 
    wanted. So yes, basically at this point, do ask and do not feel bad for 
    asking, for what you want may be not findable in the game."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - But, yes, there is not alot of in game knowledge to 
    discover unfortunately."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Thank you. That's certainly reassuring. By the way, given the shortage 
    of things to practice the skills on, would the staff be willing to give 
    a character a literary skill after he received lots of in-game lessons 
    from a scholar (who had said skill at, say, familiar)? Or at least 
    provide a way for scholars to gain writing-related skills faster?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It is possible, but the staff would have to see the effort 
    used in the roleplay."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - The literacy skill is so new we have not determined those sorts 
    of things yet so best to ask on a case by case basis, and yes send in 
    logs of rp if possible."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Harn is a low-knowledge world. Knowledge is kept from the masses. Books 
    are imported contraband in Melderyn to preserve that. And a player with 
    adept can teach skills, btw. ;)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Good topic. We love knowledge in the game. Write more! :) 
    Next agenda item."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Isn't it convenient for the staff that Harn is so low-magic and 
    low-knowledge sharing. Whew. Makes our job easier.. Suffer the ignorant 
    peasants, woowoo."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The return of the subue skill in some formula that would 
    make sense and won't be abuseable?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS huh? is that a topic?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I really can't see a good reason for this to be brought 
    back."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Yes."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Small suggestion here - if the players were able to surrender willingly, 
    and thus allow themselves to be taken prisoner, we'd have no need for a 
    subdue skill, I think."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - That already exists. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'll just... Um... Sit down now."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I always kinda liked subdue, personally. But how open it was to 
    abuse was always a problem. People subdueing wild animals, bear bombing 
    and so forth."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Anytime during combat you can surrender to your attacker 
    and they will have you subdued."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Subdue currently works if one surrenders in combat. I cannot 
    recall a game enanching use of this skill as it was before."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But not before combat..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'm all for it with enforcer NPCs but outside of that, I don't think 
    most PCs have reason for it. For characters that have some need for it 
    (like high level enforcer types), perhaps. But then they should have 
    minions (NPC) to do that for them."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - You can set yourself pacifist so you will not attack and 
    when you notice someone attack you just surrender."

Someone says, 
   "Is there any other skill that lets you cqapture someone and take them to 
    another area? If not, I think we need it. If you're a brgand or...well, 
    anyone who wants to rob, capture, or kidnap people, how else will you do 
    it? Just make it so you can only subdue a humanoid. I confess I don't 
    understand why everyone is against it :P."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Ehr, sorry, forgot to use ooc."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - A brigand can beat a person into unconsciousness and then 
    drag them away I suppose."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Beating them unconscious takes them out of rp."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Mostly people were annoyed at being subdued when they were 
    attacking a person with a weapon, it seemed silly."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I don't see why. My brother can subdue someone who comes at him with a 
    weapon. :p."

Someone says, out of character,
   "One issue i came upon a couple times though is that it doesnt make sense 
    to beat certain ppl out cold to subdue them.. i think someone brought 
    this up in relation to a peonian one time."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Damnit, that was also meant to be ichat, though the comment is valid out 
    loud too."

Someone says, 
   "I'd just like to say...I believe we need something. It can always be 
    tweaked. Just don't do away with it forever. It's a valid action :)."

Someone says, 
   "I think Subdue was always overabused and good riddance to it. There's a 
    lot of other ways for an Enforcer in HL to deal with a criminal than to 
    use a Subdue command. No need for it as a PC command. And it was very 
    rarely used in any kind of realistic context...people were always 
    grappling and subduing someone while having a shield strapped to their 
    shoulder, absurd."

Someone says, out of character,
   "A brigand wouldn't likely want to hold someone. Where would they keep 
    them? Feed them? Communicate to others that they're held (literacy being 
    unlikely) and askig for ransom? "Hello, this is Joe Brigand, I've got 
    Master Nobody. Mind paying a ransom of 26 pennies? They're interested in 
    robbing them at the end of a sword. "Gimme the cash or I'll take it off 
    yer corpse" and so forth."

Someone says, 
   "Gosh that'd be a fun plot."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Except for law enforcement, subdue's not that necessary."

Someone says, out of character,
   "And then it can be accomplished with NPCs."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Revus - k, we're running behind, next!"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - There are reasons for and against, the current code has it 
    disabled and we just haven't heard any compelling reasons to implement 
    it again."

Someone pokes Blackhorde. 

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Aye, aye, Revus. Next agenda item."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The usage of tower shields in feudal societies."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The idea in Harnmaster is that different shields are better 
    for different attack types. Unfortunately we do not have that 
    granularity in our combat code. Ideally tower shields would suck against 
    daggers, but be good against polearms and big weapons."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Blame me for the Roman-feel for Tharda. When I created a past character, 
    one of the staff said use Pax Tharda for reference. I did. Still do. :-D."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Everyone email complaints to Coranus."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But for infantry like the Thardic Legions they're appropriate."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Instead bigger shields just seem to have better bonuses to 
    block, so the staff caved in and let the Feudals have tower shields too."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Not sure about feudal society in general."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Tower shields like the scutum were great for the tactics used by a 
    disciplined line attack."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Thrusting from behind a tower shield."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I am not sure this topic is really all that relevent. In 
    the real Harnworld the differing armies do not use different equipment. 
    The isle is small, they all have the same tech level. Just my two 
    farthings."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Yknow they are heavier so the higher encumberence does have at 
    least a marginal negative impact."

Someone says, 
   "As I see tower shields they were an item used by massed infantry in a 
    battle to protect them against flights of enemy arrows or to make a kind 
    of human wall defense...not something anyone would be carrying around 
    with them in an everyday context like patrolling a town or standing 
    guard."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And also what BH said, we in the game out of a desire to have 
    flavour have twenty types of shortsword, but in HM they'd all just be 'a 
    shortsword'."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think a lighter shield would be issued for that role."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Too true."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think you could expand it to other things than the tower shield as 
    things that most people from X would use but people from Y wouldn't. Or 
    people of X religion as compared to Y religion or Z religion, but I 
    think that it's more players policing themselves than Admins laying down 
    the law. As far as the towershield goes, I think it's good for some 
    things and not good for others, but, like I said, it's up to the player 
    to say, "Wait a minute, I'm being a jackass." That's it. Sorry for going 
    off topic."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - yay."

Someone says, out of character,
   "As one that has fought SCA and live steele I can tell you that tower 
    shields suck for one on one combat. They are designed for mass 
    formation. Its a case of players choosing better protection at the cost 
    of RP. Unless you are an active Merc I don't see you walking around with 
    one."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It just would not be the shield of choice for the average 
    fighter/adventurer type."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I wouldnt' even see mercenaries using a tower shield."

Someone says, out of character,
   "They're for regimented disciplined forces."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Training together."

Someone says, out of character,
   "You'd have to be in a large company and fight in a shield wall."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Fact is, many mercenaries fled battle rather than bothering with 
    fighting."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We just discussed ever so briefly adding another armaments class 
    of Soldier/Merc and restricting the heavier common arms to that group, 
    like two-hand spears, most polearms, tower shields, and shortswords that 
    seem more like broadswords. But ultimately it just seems like another 
    pain in the ass rule to enforce, and not worth it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But in terms of the historical use of tower shields, trained properly, 
    they can be quite effective in combat."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Including one-on-one."

Someone says, out of character,
   "You simply have to know how to use it."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Ultimately we leave the choice up to the player of the 
    character."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Anders has shown an interest in the past in making shields 
    more Harnmaster like though, so maybe things will change in the future. 
    Next agenda item ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Limiting the number of clans in the game and areas that a 
    character can RP."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I've hardly ever played outside of Tashal, so my comments remain bolted 
    to that area. I have no idea how many kath, orbaalese or Thardans are 
    out there. Concerning the disparity in Tashal, I feel like pointing out 
    that, right now, the only place where the various guilds, fighting 
    orders and temples intersect is the tavern."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I'd debate that with you, but its certainly the most usual 
    place, go on."

Someone says, out of character,
   "There simply isn't enough action in the mangai as a whole, or in the 
    patheon or amongst the various orders; these are merely my observations. 
    It's a shame we don't see many tournaments, mangai politics or 
    interactions between the temples. Things that have the potential to 
    unearth plots bigger than tavern-sitting."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - In the past players have organized these sort of events and 
    met varying success, but staff always support the players who wish to 
    get these going."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - As for limiting clans when a person requests one we 
    recommend they get involved with an existing like clan, unless one does 
    not exist for the idea they have, but we support new ideas as well."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And we of course welcome recruiting more players, as your 
    intrique is going to be limited in multiple one-person clans."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It's not so much about events, but day-to-day affairs, things that make 
    factions interact habitually and can spark up tiny plots on their own. 
    Another issue concerns mobility. The fact that we have a large world 
    pales in comparison to the difficulties related to travel. There simply 
    isn't any incentive for most characters to move around, and therefore to 
    interact with people playing in distant lands."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Travel was a rare thing for most people in this time 
    period."
Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - That is to say, its hard to have intrique (day to day background 
    incidents and scheming) between say two orders or guilds if each is made 
    up of only one person."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think mercenary outfits and caravaneers have reason enough to travel; 
    making up reasons for other groups would be nice."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - 2 in the queue to speak."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Okay, done. Sorry."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - At one point various economic activity required going here or 
    there to get this or that, but ppl apparently hated that and wanted 
    everything available locally."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Well, Revus, count this as a big vote in favor of the "going here to get 
    this and there to get that" group. ;)."

Someone nods to the republican. 

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It has been discussed that one lure to go to other places 
    for things might be commodities such as metals, jewels, silks, etc."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I'm not sure what the original speaker had in mind when they added this 
    topic."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - But the commodities would be a merchantyler lure."

Someone says, out of character,
   "But the consolidation of the gameworld a bit is still kind of vague."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It is a topic that has come up in the past and generally 
    met with little support."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It's presently at Trobridge (and by that Heras and Bjornsson), Tashal, 
    Kathela Hills, and Orbaal?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - We do not officially support the North for new building. 
    THey are aware of this. We focus on the Trobridge, Tashal area."

Someone says, out of character,
   "OK, perhaps instead of the Kath an emphasis on the Chelni instead since 
    they interact in TB. The Kath are hippies living in the wilderness by 
    comparison. ;)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - 2 in the queue to speak."

Someone says, 
   "Ok, most clans have low membership as it is...four active PC's in a clan 
    is a big bad clan in HL and always has been. I dont think eitehr should 
    be limited at all...the aggro npc's that are present in interlying 
    regions between the towns on the mudmap are more than enough to limit 
    travel and I think a PC should be able to travel and RP anywhere they 
    want...dont think it gets in the way of anything unless you feel that it 
    causes the mud to crash ...early on in the mud we had free travel around 
    the mudmap and I cant see that it really had a negative effect. I think 
    it should be re-implemented and I think that it should be 
    RP-supported...why not ? As for commodities thats a very very realistic 
    justificaton for PC travel. I have long opposed this insistence on 
    limiting the mud to Tashal-Trobridge...opposed that since its inception 
    here. I think it leads us to stagnation."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The game has often had proponents for both expansion and 
    consolidation. The staff respects both camps."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - In fact some of us arent sure which camp we fall into ourselves, 
    there are pros and cons to both points of view there."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Just our building is going to be focused on the 'home bases' of 
    the weight of the player base. We have had a lot of building for 
    fleeting clans that die, and it takes up mud memory and time, so usually 
    better to build where others can use the structures/npc's etc when one 
    clan falls and another clan rises."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - One day I will sit on the ebony thrown of Rethem ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I bet there's already an easy way to count the number of members in a 
    clan, including the various location clans like Tashal City... It would 
    be nice to see the population counter for each starting area when you 
    join, if that hasn't been implemented already. That way, both the 
    consolidation and expansion camps could take their pick."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - But we let players wander where they want to, just not usually 
    build little villages in their path. :."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Hmm. There are some clans that wouldnt want that advertised on a 
    clan by clan basis. Maybe a region by region basis only."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - It would be a manual process to construct such a list 
    unfortunately and would have to be filtered to the currently active, 
    etc."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Next agenda item ..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Why do the staff allow victimizing in the game?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Thats a highly vague topic, btw."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - In short because the admins aren't interested in taking the 
    blame for victimizing you, we leave that up to your peers."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - I enjoy victimizing them sometimes, heh."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - But its usually the sort they can see coming."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Right."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The staff are not fond of offering the impression to the 
    player base that 'we' are against you. Because we are not. We value each 
    player. But we want there to be conflict, no game is realistic without 
    it. So you have your players who create conflict. Often we hear about 
    them on the forums, they are often called twinks without cause."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - But without player evil you would see alot less happening 
    in the world around you."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And with respect to whomever proposed this topic, its not a mush 
    and your fellow players dont need your consent to harm you provided that 
    it is IC for their role."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I don't know what victimizing refers to, but there instances when a 
    character gets themselves into a situation where they're going to get 
    screwed majorly."

Someone says, out of character,
   "It's only natural that they do."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Could the person who posted this topic elaborate?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - They are not here, but I will move right into the next 
    agenda item which is related."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Are there too many thieves or evil people in the game?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Ah, thieves."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - No, there are not. However if one person is robbed, then it 
    means everyone in the MUD is a thief but the victim. This is simply not 
    true."

Someone says, out of character,
   "If the game is overbalanced with a certain type of character I would 
    prefer the balancing to be done in character rather than targetting the 
    players of those characters through out of character means. The in game 
    balancing may need the staff to be involved, but an in character event 
    of my destruction is far preferable to me than out of character debates 
    as to the legitimacy of my character's or group's actions or existance."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - We're also looking at some building and coding solutions to 
    thievery to make it more balanced. And providing IC guidelines to the 
    formalized thief clan, the LK, that will be enforced by their PC 
    superiors. Beyond that, there doesnt seem to be a large number of 
    'badguys' compared to goodguys."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Ok, when I played a semi-Enforcer, I used to think that there were way 
    too many evil chars and theives....but, playing theives and other 
    consummately evil chars...I am not seeing that now."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Not that a thief is per se an evil char..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "I think the balance has evened out considerably lately."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The sad reality is that theivery or being victimized is 
    very traumatic. We understand that. But we do not see it as an epidemic 
    in any shape or form."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Yes, looks can be deceiving, it only takes a couple of very 
    active PCs of any sort, evil or good or neutral tree huggers to make it 
    look like they are running things, its just not so."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Its not..."

Someone says, out of character,
   "My first month in Harshlands, someone posted on the forums to the 
    thieves who robbed their place, "It was bad enough that you robbed me of 
    all my money...but did you have to steal my cheese too?!?!" Taken in 
    context with humor. It's a game and as long as it's RP'd properly, theft 
    should be allowed. H&S twink thieves are to be drawn and quartered but 
    those who pull it off through careful planning and realistic RP 
    shouldn't be hampered."

Someone says, out of character,
   "By the way, if the person who posted that still plays, that was 
    hilarious and I still snicker 7 years later. *grin*."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - The staff are more than willing to look into any theft or 
    victimization if a player is in doubt as to the fairness of it, but 
    please email the staff when you have calmed down and can voice your 
    opinions rationally."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - The real negative aspect here is the inordinate amount of 
    building, coding effort that goes into twink proofing the game. A thief 
    is a highly playable role not taken to extremis by the player. But when 
    they deliberately start looking for exploits to exploit it becomes a war 
    of us the staff versus them the thief, and thats a waste of our limited 
    time and resources."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - That was the 16th and final agenda item and we made it 
    through them before midnight. Kewl. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - whew."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - I would like to thank everyone for attending and I am 
    hoping we can get a log of this posted for those that could not attend."

Someone says, out of character,
   "MILLIE - Yes thank you all. :)."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - Now, lets schedule our next player meeting for, shall we say, 
    2008?"

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Feel free to leave this area using the 'return' command."

Someone says, out of character,
   "Our record is 37 players, last seen on Sun Oct 1 00:09:27 2006."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - For those who were transferred here and cannot use 'return' 
    just petition and let us know roughtly where you were and we will send 
    you there."

Someone says, out of character,
   "REVUS - And we got thru it with only a modest amount of smart ass 
    remarks from me."

Someone says, out of character,
   "BLACKHORDE - Well done, Revus. :)."

Someone grins.